The 5BA is siill available from Force 12. We are supporting as a 'legacy
model' due to its enduring popularity even though we have many high
performance new models that cover the same bands.
Sorry for the plug but wanted to set the record straight.
73
Bill AA7XT
Force 12 / InnovAntennas America
Why doesn't anyone in USA make a long boom 5 band antenna without traps
anymore?
Seems like force 12 went to short boom only.
Optibeam makes one in Germany, but shipping to USA is expensive.
Ken W3JJ
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 9:33 AM, <towertalk-request@contesting.com> wrote:
> Send TowerTalk mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Fwd: Fwd: Bulkhead feed-through. (Jim Lux)
> 2. Re: Fwd: Fwd: Bulkhead feed-through. (Chris)
> 3. Re: Fwd: Fwd: Bulkhead feed-through. (James Chaggaris)
> 4. Re: N6BT, Force12inc and JK Antennas (john@kk9a.com)
> 5. Re: N6BT, Force12inc and JK Antennas (Matt Brosious via TowerTalk)
> 6. Re: N6BT, Force12inc and JK Antennas (Tim Duffy)
> 7. Re: N6BT, Force12inc and JK Antennas (Kenneth Sobel)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:48:57 -0800
> From: Jim Lux <jimlux@earthlink.net>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Fwd: Fwd: Bulkhead feed-through.
> Message-ID: <546F5EE9.9020704@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 11/21/14, 7:40 AM, Hans Hammarquist via TowerTalk wrote:
> > No Ron, it's worse. I have a square opening in the wall of my shack that
> is covered with a metal plate. There are holes in the plate that hold the
> bulkhead feed-troughs.
> >
> >
> > My idea was to have easy access to the various feeders that goes up the
> tower. I plug in the coax from the trx whatever antenna I need for the
> moment. All the connectors are open to the air in the shack. I thought it
> was an excellent idea but realize now that it might not have been that
> excellent after all.
> >
> >
> > As the plate has no insulation it will get cold in the winter and I will
> have condensation on it AND the connectors. If (I am sure it will) the
> condensation goes through the connectors I will also have water on the
> outside with following corrosion. :( As the connectors are sealed, the
> water will have no way to get out.
> >
> >
> here's a sort of different approach..
>
> it's a small plate, I assume.. What about bolting a small resistor to it
> and running a bit of current to keep it warm. A watt does a surprising
> amount to keep things a bit warmer than the surroundings and keep it
> relatively dry.
> You could get one of those reptile strip heaters, for instance.
> Or just put one of the wall warts sure to be in your shack near it
>
> 1 watt, for 8640 hours (a year), is 8.64kWh, and about $3/yr at my
> 0.34/kWh .
>
> Put a layer of styrofoam board over the outside with holes for the
> cables, and the heat loss through the plate will be dramatically reduced.
>
> Similar schemes can be used to keep conduit dry.. It just needs to be
> enough heat to change the equilibrium over the long run, because your
> goal isn't really to prevent any condensation, it's to keep water from
> accumulating.
>
> When the water condenses it gives up heat of vaporization to the conduit
> and wires (warming them), and when it evaporates, the wires/conduit cool
> a bit. All you need to do is add a bit of net heat and while water
> might condense when it gets cooler, it will evaporate again fairly quickly.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 08:49:07 -0700
> From: Chris <EZRhino@fastmovers.biz>
> Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Fwd: Fwd: Bulkhead feed-through.
> Message-ID: <FFC7486D-365D-4E4C-883B-14AA878E7282@fastmovers.biz>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> So here's what you do: Keep the plate on the exterior wall over the hole,
> and add another plate on the interior wall. Fill the space between the two
> plates with insulation, and replace your short bulkheads with the really
> long ones that will extend all the way through the wall, through both
> plates.
>
> Chris
> KF7P
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 21, 2014, at 8:40 AM, Hans Hammarquist via TowerTalk wrote:
>
> > No Ron, it's worse. I have a square opening in the wall of my shack that
> is covered with a metal plate. There are holes in the plate that hold the
> bulkhead feed-troughs.
> >
> >
> > My idea was to have easy access to the various feeders that goes up the
> tower. I plug in the coax from the trx whatever antenna I need for the
> moment. All the connectors are open to the air in the shack. I thought it
> was an excellent idea but realize now that it might not have been that
> excellent after all.
> >
> >
> > As the plate has no insulation it will get cold in the winter and I will
> have condensation on it AND the connectors. If (I am sure it will) the
> condensation goes through the connectors I will also have water on the
> outside with following corrosion. :( As the connectors are sealed, the
> water will have no way to get out.
> >
> >
> > Maybe I should remove the seals on the outside to reduce the risk of
> corrosion.
> >
> >
> > Hans - N2JFS
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 09:52:10 -0600
> From: James Chaggaris <jimc@pwrone.com>
> To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Fwd: Fwd: Bulkhead feed-through.
> Message-ID: <D094BA53.1C3FB%jimc@pwrone.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> At my old QTH, I used bulkhead connectors through a piece of 1/2? wood cut
> to the size of my window well window. From there I used 2 sheets of
> aluminum on either side of the wood and attached them together with SS
> bolts. I grounded the whole thing using 2? copper strap to a couple of
> ground rods outside. I used this feed-through for 6yrs and never had any
> condensation. (I also sealed around the wood/aluminum panel with caulk).
>
>
> 73,
>
> Jim N9WW
>
> James Chaggaris
> President
> PowerOne Corp./PowerOne Environmental
> 2325 Dean St. Suite 200
> St. Charles, IL 60175
> Phn: 630.443.6500
> Cell: 630.669.2241
> Fax: 630.44366505
> Website: www.pwrone.com <http://www.pwrone.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/21/14, 9:40 AM, "Hans Hammarquist via TowerTalk"
> <towertalk@contesting.com> wrote:
>
> >No Ron, it's worse. I have a square opening in the wall of my shack that
> >is covered with a metal plate. There are holes in the plate that hold the
> >bulkhead feed-troughs.
> >
> >
> >My idea was to have easy access to the various feeders that goes up the
> >tower. I plug in the coax from the trx whatever antenna I need for the
> >moment. All the connectors are open to the air in the shack. I thought it
> >was an excellent idea but realize now that it might not have been that
> >excellent after all.
> >
> >
> >As the plate has no insulation it will get cold in the winter and I will
> >have condensation on it AND the connectors. If (I am sure it will) the
> >condensation goes through the connectors I will also have water on the
> >outside with following corrosion. :( As the connectors are sealed, the
> >water will have no way to get out.
> >
> >
> >Maybe I should remove the seals on the outside to reduce the risk of
> >corrosion.
> >
> >
> >Hans - N2JFS
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Ron W8RJL <youngron@verizon.net>
> >To: Tower and HF antenna construction topics. <towertalk@contesting.com>
> >Sent: Thu, Nov 20, 2014 11:41 pm
> >Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Fwd: Bulkhead feed-through.
> >
> >
> >Hans apparently has a metal plate against the outside of his house/shack
> >with feed thru connectors (they come in lengths to go thru the wall) and
> >apparently thinks humidity can get thru the feed thru to the connector
> >outside screwed onto the outside end of the feed thru. If I have
> >understood
> >his set up, I don't see where any moist air from inside the house/shack
> >can
> >get to the PL-259 outside because there will be a coax screwed onto the
> >inside end of the feed thru.
> >
> >My comment is that most/many put the bulkhead plate a few inches away
> >from
> >the outside wall (enough room to be able to screw on a PL-259) and just
> >run
> >coax and a wide piece of braid thru the wall. Yes, the bulkhead it tied
> >to
> >or part of the ground rod so the bulkhead plate or box (rain protection
> >for
> >lightning arrestors etc) is in fact the SPG (single point ground).
> >
> >I don't think Hans has a problem especially if coax connectors are sealed
> >with a good quality tape and/or lined heat shrink.
> >
> >Ron W8RJL
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <n8de@thepoint.net>
> >To: "Hans Hammarquist" <hanslg@aol.com>; "Hans Hammarquist via TowerTalk"
> ><towertalk@contesting.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:18 PM
> >Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Fwd: Bulkhead feed-through.
> >
> >
> >>I don't understand Ron's post at all.
> >>
> >> My bulkhead is my SPG and is mounted in a vent about 1 foot from the
> >> ground rod outside the house.
> >>
> >> In reference to the original question:
> >> IF the bulkhead connectors are secure and there is a DRIP LOOP on the
> >> INSIDE of them, there should be NO problem with water inside the
> >> coax/bulkhead connector.
> >>
> >> 73
> >> Don
> >> N8DE
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Quoting Hans Hammarquist via TowerTalk <towertalk@contesting.com>:
> >>
> >>> Well, mine isn't. :(
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Ron Young <youngron@verizon.net>
> >>> To: Hans Hammarquist <hanslg@aol.com>
> >>> Sent: Thu, Nov 20, 2014 5:42 pm
> >>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Bulkhead feed-through.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Usually the bulkhead is on stand-offs so the plate is off the
> >>>outside
> >>> wall. Only
> >>> coax goes thru the wall. There should be no vapor going thru the coax
> >>>so
> >>> no
> >>> problem.
> >>> Ron W8RJL
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Nov 20, 2014, at 5:34 PM, Hans Hammarquist via TowerTalk
> >>> <towertalk@contesting.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a grounded, metal plate that carries all my bulkhead
> >>>>connectors
> >>>> from
> >>> the outside to the inside. No big deal except: I have wrapped the
> >>> outside of the
> >>> connectors with water tight tape.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Consider that the temperature is lower outside than inside (Vermont)
> >>>>I
> >>>> am
> >>> afraid that I will have water buildup on the connectors on the
> >>>outside
> >>> as vapor
> >>> easily can get through from the inside.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Comments! Have anyone have had a problem with this before? Do I have
> >>>>to
> >>>> get
> >>> guarantied water tight bulk, feed-through connectors?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 73 de,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hans
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> N2JFS
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> TowerTalk mailing list
> >>>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> TowerTalk mailing list
> >>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TowerTalk mailing list
> >> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >TowerTalk mailing list
> >TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >TowerTalk mailing list
> >TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 10:55:31 -0500
> From: john@kk9a.com
> To: Kelly Taylor <ve4xt@mymts.net>
> Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] N6BT, Force12inc and JK Antennas
> Message-ID: <b83e61074ffc77ab4194a0ab104ee5d9@kk9a.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
>
>
> Bummer, I was not aware that DX Engineering discontinued the TX38. I
> know that a lot of work went into optimizing this yagi for all three
> bands and it also had four 10m elements. I think it would have been a
> perfect contest expedition antenna.
>
> John KK9A
>
> On 2014-11-21 10:26, Kelly Taylor wrote:
>
> > The TX-38 was sold to DX Engineering and was subsequently discontinued.
> It
> > was expensive for only having three bands (it was almost Bencher Skyhawk
> > money), but it did look like a fabulous design, particularly with four
> > elements on 10.
> >
> > The people who were lucky enough to get one rave about it, but it appears
> > there's not enough demand for pure tribanders any more. People want five
> > bands.
> >
> > 73, kelly
> > ve4xt
> >
> > On 11/21/14 9:16 AM, "john@kk9a.com" <john@kk9a.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Cycle-24's TX38 looks like it would also be a great expedition antenna
> however the original poster was looking for a five band beam. The C3 and
> the TX38 are not. John KK9A To: <towertalk@contesting.com> Subject: Re:
> [TowerTalk] N6BT, Force12inc and JK Antennas From: "Ed Sawyer" <
> sawyered@earthlink.net> Reply-to: sawyered@earthlink.net Date: Fri, 21
> Nov 2014 09:18:07 -0500 The C3 is the best short boom tribander out there
> in my opinion. I have used them around the world. They are a clean pattern,
> smooth SWR across the full band performer. At the end of the day, the gain
> available is a function of boom length primarily. On 15 and 20, you are
> going to help yourself by stuffing another element on a short boom. On 10M,
> the argument could be made that another element would add value to this
> antenna, but the antenna works as a nice package. On 12 and 17 - its just a
> rotary dipole essentially - so if that's someone's interest, this isn't the
> antenna for you. Nice advantage for
> DXpeditions, you can break this baby down into a golf case. And there are
> no finicky little motors and control lines to worry about. 73 Ed N1UR
> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________ TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk [1]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:08:29 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Matt Brosious via TowerTalk <towertalk@contesting.com>
> To: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] N6BT, Force12inc and JK Antennas
> Message-ID:
> <
> 1324185715.3618757.1416586109325.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10694.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> The Forec 12 antenna 5 band is the XR5 sells for $1,499 ??XR5-T: Compact 9
> Element 20m/17m/15m/12m/10m Multi-Mono Yagi
> The JK Navassa sells for $1,185. ??
> http://www.jkantennas.com/jk-navassa-5.html
> The excelelnt build quality and lower price points to the JK.
> DX Engineering stocks the JK.
> Matt w1mbb
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 11:19:53 -0500
> From: "Tim Duffy" <k3lr@k3lr.com>
> To: <john@kk9a.com>, "'Kelly Taylor'" <ve4xt@mymts.net>
> Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] N6BT, Force12inc and JK Antennas
> Message-ID: <20A4CD2F62A445D8ADE8F7A89896C35B@laptop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello John:
>
> I work at DX Engineering, so maybe I can help clarify a bit.
>
> You know I love antennas and I really loved the TX-38. It was a super
> performer (10 meters was really good), I used it on Field Day for two years
> with a triplexer - it was awesome! However, for the reasons several guys
> have pointed out here it did not sell well (even with deep discount
> incentives). Many guys choose the Bencher Skyhawk - a larger alternative to
> the TX-38 with more performance "bang". 8P5A and many others love the
> Skyhawk!
>
> The latest "hot" high quality 5 bander (20,17,15,12 and 10) with a 6 meter
> add on (makes it 6 bands on one short boom) is the JK NAVASSA5. You can see
> it here.
>
> http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/jka-navassa5
>
> 73,
> Tim K3LR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> john@kk9a.com
> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 10:56 AM
> To: Kelly Taylor
> Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] N6BT, Force12inc and JK Antennas
>
>
>
> Bummer, I was not aware that DX Engineering discontinued the TX38. I
> know that a lot of work went into optimizing this yagi for all three
> bands and it also had four 10m elements. I think it would have been a
> perfect contest expedition antenna.
>
> John KK9A
>
> On 2014-11-21 10:26, Kelly Taylor wrote:
>
> > The TX-38 was sold to DX Engineering and was subsequently discontinued.
> It
> > was expensive for only having three bands (it was almost Bencher Skyhawk
> > money), but it did look like a fabulous design, particularly with four
> > elements on 10.
> >
> > The people who were lucky enough to get one rave about it, but it appears
> > there's not enough demand for pure tribanders any more. People want five
> > bands.
> >
> > 73, kelly
> > ve4xt
> >
> > On 11/21/14 9:16 AM, "john@kk9a.com" <john@kk9a.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Cycle-24's TX38 looks like it would also be a great expedition antenna
> however the original poster was looking for a five band beam. The C3 and
> the
> TX38 are not. John KK9A To: <towertalk@contesting.com> Subject: Re:
> [TowerTalk] N6BT, Force12inc and JK Antennas From: "Ed Sawyer"
> <sawyered@earthlink.net> Reply-to: sawyered@earthlink.net Date: Fri, 21
> Nov
> 2014 09:18:07 -0500 The C3 is the best short boom tribander out there in my
> opinion. I have used them around the world. They are a clean pattern,
> smooth
> SWR across the full band performer. At the end of the day, the gain
> available is a function of boom length primarily. On 15 and 20, you are
> going to help yourself by stuffing another element on a short boom. On 10M,
> the argument could be made that another element would add value to this
> antenna, but the antenna works as a nice package. On 12 and 17 - its just a
> rotary dipole essentially - so if that's someone's interest, this isn't the
> antenna for you. Nice advantage for
> DXpeditions, you can break this baby down into a golf case. And there are
> no
> finicky little motors and control lines to worry about. 73 Ed N1UR
> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________ TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk [1]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 11:33:18 -0500
> From: Kenneth Sobel <kenxxx@optonline.net>
> To: TowerTalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] N6BT, Force12inc and JK Antennas
> Message-ID: <677ED941F0A8488180027FAF154C9784@KennethHP>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I have had a force12 5BA for 17 years and I love it. 15 elements on a 33
> foot boom with no traps.
> Why doesn't anyone in USA make a long boom 5 band antenna without traps
> anymore?
> Seems like force 12 went to short boom only.
> Optibeam makes one in Germany, but shipping to USA is expensive.
>
> Ken W3JJ
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 143, Issue 61
> ******************************************
>
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