Guys,
The rules do not point out that you cannot run a captive rover. When W7XU
here in SD was on the air before the tornado took down his stuff, we used to
run the VHF contests with a captive rover or 2. I can tell you with a HIGH
degree of certainty that in SD you do not have a lot of rovers, or much VHF
activity, period. We used those rovers to work a lot of grids that
otherwise had NO chance of being covered, even adjacent grids to our EN13
were not active. Its just a fact of where we are at. If those rovers
happened to work someone else, not a problem, they were not told not to work
anyone. In that case they are not totally captive.
Arliss had one of THE biggest VHF setups that I have ever seen or operated
at, and did we win the limited multi? NO. We came close, but not a win. If
we had been out east, perhaps we would have won, but it really didn't
matter. We came together and gave it our best shot and let the results fall
as they may. Thats all anyone can do.
As long as the rules don't forbid captive rovers, or grid circling, or
making schedules for that matter, it will happen for those who want to be
competitive. We will operate within the rules.
73, God Bless! Todd WD0T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Naumann - W5OV" <w5ov@w5ov.com>
To: "John Geiger" <ne0p@lcisp.com>; "Matt Patterson"
<mattpatt@1starnet.com>; <vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Grid Circling
> I am still puzzled why the problem with pack-rovering continues to be
> misunderstood.
>
> It is a team of rovers working together. They need to be recognized as
> a team and therefore not equivalent to a non-team, or independent rover.
>
> There is no direct analogy to this situation, but the closest one is
> where you have single operators, and multiple operators. Multi ops are
> scored differently than single ops.
>
> Multiple rovers working together need to be scored differently than
> single rovers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Eating someone elses belongings is wrong, and would be considered
> stealing
> > in the eyes of the law. I know that I can't win my division based on
> > antenna height, size, and number of bands I run, in addition to
> having other
> > committments that prevent me from running the entire length of the
> contest.
> > Does that make stations with bigger antennas "unethical" in my
> eyes?. Does
> > that mean I should quit playing in contests also?
> >
> > 73s John NE0P
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Matt Patterson" <mattpatt@1starnet.com>
> > To: <vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Grid Circling
> >
> >
> > > That's easy for you to say when you're not a rover in their
> division.
> > Take
> > > it from someone who is. What they are doing is an unfair
> manipulation of
> > > the rules and the rules need to be changed. I'm seriously
> considering not
> > > going out in September because I know I won't have a chance to even
> place
> > in
> > > my division because of the "legal" grid circling tatics employed by
> > certain
> > > rovers.
> > >
> > > This kinda reminds me of a problem we have here at work. We have a
> > > community refrigerator here and unless you put your name on your
> food
> > there
> > > are a certain few here who will eat it. They know it's not theirs,
> they
> > > know it's wrong but yet they still do it. Same with grid circling,
> they
> > > know it's wrong and know it's not ethically right but since it's not
> > > breaking any rules they still go out and do it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Matt
> > > W5LL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "John Geiger" <ne0p@lcisp.com>
> > > To: <k3uhf@earthlink.net>; "Zack Widup" <w9sz@prairienet.org>;
> > > <vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 9:08 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Grid Circling
> > >
> > >
> > > > And what exactly is this concept of "wrongness" being based on?
> > > >
> > > > 1. Is it in violation of FCC rules-NO
> > > > 2. Is it in violation of contest rules-NO, if it were they
> would
> > > > have
> > > > been disqualified
> > > > 3. Is it in violation of biblical law (either old or new
> testament), or
> > of
> > > > the Koran-NO
> > > > 4. Is anyone physically or psychologically harmed by it-NO (unless
> > having
> > > > to
> > > > see this beaten to death on the reflector causes psychological
> harm in
> > > > some)
> > > > 5. Does it violate any other US or international law or treaty-NO
> > > >
> > > > So what exactly are you basing this "wrongness" on?
> > > >
> > > > 73s John NE0P
> > > > Captive fixed station grid circler
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "frank bechdoldt" <k3uhf@earthlink.net>
> > > > To: "Zack Widup" <w9sz@prairienet.org>;
> <vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:05 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Grid Circling
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> well were up to about 60 percent who think its wring so thats 25
> of us.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > [Original Message]
> > > >> > From: Zack Widup <w9sz@prairienet.org>
> > > >> > To: <vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
> > > >> > Date: 8/25/2005 6:01:45 AM
> > > >> > Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Grid Circling
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Fisher, Mike wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > I still think the captive rover is WRONG!!!! It may be
> allowed (in
> > > >> > > the
> > > >> > > rules) to ONLY work the stations in your group/club, but to
> me if
> > > > you're
> > > >> > > only giving points to the QUEEN BEE that that's not in the
> SPIRIT
> > of
> > > >> > > contesting.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > As long as it's a win at all costs, this will never get any
> better.
> > > >> > > Maybe one year I will WIN an event but a "win just to win"
> takes
> > ALL
> > > >> > > the fun out of it.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Mike Fisher N3VOP FM19
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Once upon a time, microwave activity was nil. I can
> understand that
> > in
> > > >> > the distant past if a club had microwave equipment but no one
> to work
> > > >> > up
> > > >> > there, it made sense to equip others with such gear and have
> them go
> > > >> > off
> > > >> > and work you. At that time there was probably no one else to
> work.
> > > > I've
> > > >> > been considering doing that myself. I have two functional
> > transverters
> > > >> > for 3456 and 5760 and I'm considering building another for 10
> GHz. I
> > > >> > can
> > > >> > lend them to someone to go off somewhere and work me. BUT - I
> know
> > of
> > > > at
> > > >> > least 4 other stations I can now count on to work on 2304 and a
> > couple
> > > > on
> > > >> > the higher bands. I will certainly work them even if it means
> > missing
> > > >> > some time on 144 or 432, etc. And I hope the person I loan my
> > equipment
> > > >> to
> > > >> > will do the same (work other people).
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I can't see that as an excuse for "captive stations" on the
> lower
> > > > VHF/UHF
> > > >> > bands, though. There's plenty of people to work there for
> most of
> > us,
> > > >> > anyway.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > That said, I can see the "grid circling" might be a novel idea
> to try
> > > >> once
> > > >> > just to see what you could accomplish. But I certainly
> wouldn't want
> > > >> > to
> > > >> > do it in every contest. I'd think it would be a matter of "Been
> > there,
> > > >> > done that, let's try something else new." Especially since gas
> prices
> > > > are
> > > >> > likely to be $4/gallon when the January contest comes around.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Me? I still plan on Single-Op Portable on hilltops for most
> of my
> > > >> > operations. I might get back to Bald Knob with N5RP for
> another
> > > >> > contest
> > > >> > sometime too, if I can manage the schedule. I think we'll be a
> more
> > > >> > formidable team next time. :-)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 73, Zack W9SZ
> > > >> >
> > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > VHFcontesting mailing list
> > > >> > VHFcontesting@contesting.com
> > > >> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> VHFcontesting mailing list
> > > >> VHFcontesting@contesting.com
> > > >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > VHFcontesting mailing list
> > > > VHFcontesting@contesting.com
> > > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > VHFcontesting mailing list
> > > VHFcontesting@contesting.com
> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > VHFcontesting mailing list
> > VHFcontesting@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
> >
> >
>
> Bob Naumann - W5OV
> _______________________________________________
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