I was listening out for you Steve but unfortunately, I never heard you.
I did however hear K4QI make a qso with you on Saturday night and I
believe you were in FM26 at the time. I heard him but not you. I pointed
the antenna that way without any luck at all.
I think another contributing factor was poor conditions. I didn't hear
several of the big guns this time as conditions were pretty bad and line
noise here was s-7 at times.
Loops are good antennas but may not have been enough due to the
conditions this past weekend.
Lee K4UVA
-----Original Message-----
From: vhfcontesting-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:vhfcontesting-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
vhfcontesting-request@contesting.com
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 11:46 AM
To: vhfcontesting@contesting.com
Subject: VHFcontesting Digest, Vol 61, Issue 39
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Today's Topics:
1. VHF sked alternative (k4gun@comcast.net)
2. Re: VHF sked alternative (aa4zz@aol.com)
3. Re: VHF sked alternative (John D'Ausilio)
4. Re: Rover batteries (Mike Metroka)
5. Re: internet contest (George Fremin III)
6. test (Steve Tripp)
7. Re: VHF sked alternative (George Fremin III)
8. Jan Contest (K1IIG)
9. Re: VHF sked alternative (Duane - N9DG)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:50:44 +0000
From: k4gun@comcast.net
Subject: [VHFcontesting] VHF sked alternative
To: vhfcontesting@contesting.com (VHF contesting list)
Message-ID:
<012420082150.11449.479908340006E63100002CB92212059214029A09CB05@comcast
.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
In examining how I did in the recently completed VHF contest, I keep
hearing a similar comment from people. There were a lot of people
looking for me when I was in a couple of rare grids, but I never heard
them. One was a specific sked and the others were just "I'll find you"
appointments. I'm still unsure what happened. Either my antennas were
not up to the task or we all just barely missed each other. More than
likely, it was a combination of both of those.
The obvious cure for the poor antennas is to improve the antenna system.
That's in the works. The other issue seems to have a simple solution as
well. During the contest, I would listen and spin the dial for a while
and then call CQ on clear frequencies near other large stations. If I
was calling at the same time other stations were calling for me, we
would never find each other.
The obvious solution is to have a 2nd radio dedicated specifically to
listening to a pre-determined frequency and then telling everybody you
know what that frequency is. If a base station finds themselves in a
good pile-up at a scheduled time, they can just wait and call on the
rover's calling frequency when they have a chance. As long as the rover
keeps roughly on a driving schedule and leaves one radio on to a
specific listening frequency, all should be well.
Did I just re-invent the wheel? I've seen guys mention a listening
frequency, but I didn't get the impression that this was on a second
radio and was in liu of setting up skeds. A listening only radio with a
dedicated omni-directional antenna would seem to be a good idea. Even
if the rover got ahead or behind schedule, they would likely be within
the beamwidth of stations looking for them. Meanwhile, they are free to
switch bands, call or listen anywhere they like without missing any
people looking specifically for them.
This is one of those little tid-bits that really struck me in examining
how things went for this contest. Like I said, I realize this is
probably something pretty common, but I just seem to have missed it.
Steve
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 17:37:37 -0500
From: aa4zz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] VHF sked alternative
To: vhfcontesting@contesting.com
Message-ID: <8CA2CF0DACF179E-820-1E04@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I've often thought a 75 meter (or 40 meter) frequency would make sense
for rover announcements and it would not violate the "non amateur" rule.
73 Paul AA4ZZ
-----Original Message-----
From: k4gun@comcast.net
To: VHF contesting list <vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
Sent: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 4:50 pm
Subject: [VHFcontesting] VHF sked alternative
In examining how I did in the recently completed VHF contest, I keep
hearing a
similar comment from people. There were a lot of people looking for me
when I
was in a couple of rare grids, but I never heard them. One was a
specific sked
and the others were just "I'll find you" appointments. I'm still unsure
what
happened. Either my antennas were not up to the task or we all just
barely
missed each other. More than likely, it was a combination of both of
those.
The obvious cure for the poor antennas is to improve the antenna system.
That's
in the works. The other issue seems to have a simple solution as well.
During
the contest, I would listen and spin the dial for a while and then call
CQ on
clear frequencies near other large stations. If I was calling at the
same time
other stations were calling for me, we would never find each other.
The obvious solution is to have a 2nd radio dedicated specifically to
listening
to a pre-determined frequency and then telling everybody you know what
that
frequency is. If a base station finds themselves in a good pile-up at a
scheduled time, they can just wait and call on the rover's calling
frequency
when they have a chance. As long as the rover keeps roughly on a
driving
schedule and leaves one radio on to a specific listening frequency, all
should
be well.
Did I just re-invent the wheel? I've seen guys mention a listening
frequency,
but I didn't get the impression that this was on a second radio and was
in liu
of setting up skeds. A listening only radio with a dedicated
omni-directional
antenna would seem to be a good idea. Even if the rover got ahead or
behind
schedule, they would likely be within the beamwidth of stations looking
for
them. Meanwhile, they are free to switch bands, call or listen anywhere
they
like without missing any people looking specifically for them.
This is one of those little tid-bits that really struck me in examining
how
things went for this contest. Like I said, I realize this is probably
something
pretty common, but I just seem to have missed it.
Steve
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:20:41 -0500
From: "John D'Ausilio" <jdausilio@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] VHF sked alternative
To: k4gun@comcast.net
Cc: VHF contesting list <vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
Message-ID:
<aa9c82bf0801241620j463caf22h2bcfc0623c5453a8@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Steve, what Xtof and I usually do is make noise on one 2M frequency
and pretty much stay there. Once everybody knows you're there every
contest, they tune by once in a while and you get enough business to
eat up 60-90 minutes and hopefully we pick up enough microwave passes
to keep the 2nd op (me) busy. Don't be too discouraged by this 'test
.. conditions were pretty flat and omni antennas + flat condx +
way-the-heck-down-in-FM26 = low q count. Believe me, we've been there
and done that (from FM25 too) ..
de w1rt/john
On Jan 24, 2008 4:50 PM, <k4gun@comcast.net> wrote:
> The obvious solution is to have a 2nd radio dedicated specifically to
listening to a pre-determined frequency and then telling everybody you
know what that frequency is. If a base station finds themselves in a
good pile-up at a scheduled time, they can just wait and call on the
rover's calling frequency when they have a chance. As long as the rover
keeps roughly on a driving schedule and leaves one radio on to a
specific listening frequency, all should be well.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:10:22 -0600
From: "Mike Metroka" <VHFRover@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Rover batteries
To: "'John D'Ausilio'" <jdausilio@gmail.com>,
<vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <000601c85ef7$719a4d90$6601a8c0@Dell4600>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
John,
I've been using three Die Hard Deep cycle Marine/RV batteries for
years
in my rover. Model 27582 which is a "29HM" size box they rate at 200
minute
reserve and 675 CC Amps. I have read at least one report on the
reflectors
that the die hards are not the best batteries but I have not had
problems
with them. I also use two of them in my fishing. The main draw for me
is
that they are readily available at the local Sears store.
Mike WB8BZK/R
W1RT wrote:
The Jitney battery bank is getting a bit long in the tooth, and the
batteries are bulging just a bit. They're a set of 4 Trojan T-105s
(old-style), and they're about 6-7 years old.
I'm interested to know what others are using .. I'm sort of tempted to
move to an AGM battery, but they're considerably more expensive.
de w1rt/john
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 07:04:56 -0800
From: George Fremin III <geoiii@kkn.net>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] internet contest
To: Jimk8mr@aol.com
Cc: vhfcontesting@contesting.com
Message-ID: <20080125150456.GB83848@kkn.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 03:20:29PM -0500, Jimk8mr@aol.com wrote:
>
> Does this WiFi stuff meet the criteria of the minimum distance
requirement?
>
> >From the General Rules for VHF Contests:
>
> 1.10. While no minimum distance is specified for contacts, equipment
should
> be capable of communications at a range of at least 1 km.
>
Yes - I would think so. My internet connection for years now
has been using off the shelf WIFI access points over a 5 mile path.
Dish on my end and an omni on the other end.
--
George Fremin III - K5TR
geoiii@kkn.net
http://www.kkn.net/~k5tr
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:25:47 -0500
From: "Steve Tripp" <stephen.tripp@snet.net>
Subject: [VHFcontesting] test
To: <VHFcontesting@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <005c01c85f66$a27d9060$0500a8c0@office>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Testing changes to my email address.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 07:38:12 -0800
From: George Fremin III <geoiii@kkn.net>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] VHF sked alternative
To: k4gun@comcast.net
Cc: VHF contesting list <vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <20080125153812.GC83848@kkn.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 09:50:44PM +0000, k4gun@comcast.net wrote:
> In examining how I did in the recently completed VHF contest, I keep
> hearing a similar comment from people. There were a lot of people
> looking for me when I was in a couple of rare grids, but I never
> heard them. One was a specific sked and the others were just "I'll
> find you" appointments. I'm still unsure what happened. Either my
> antennas were not up to the task or we all just barely missed each
> other. More than likely, it was a combination of both of those.
In all contests - people miss working mults on various bands - this
happens in HF contests and VHF contests. The folks that tend to work
more multipliers and more contacts tend to be the ones that work
harder at it in various ways.
- They stay in the chair.
- They tune the bands.
- They move or switch between antennas for different directions.
- They call a lot of CQs.
- They have better antennas and signals.
- They have operated many many contests and learned from their
experiences and gained knowledge of callsigns and operating
habits of the other stations.
- Much of what they have learned has become second nature to them.
I am sure I could expand on this list - the most important is the
first one - you will not work that rover in that grid that you need
off eating dinner or watching TV or mowing the lawn while he is
calling CQ. You need to be sitting in front of the radio operating
the contest during the contest period. My guess is that this would
improve most stations VHF scores more than just about anything.
One of the things about the VHF contest culture that I have never really
understood is this need / desire to make skeds, or have some sort of
spotting via APRS or even via telephone (still happens via telephone) or
some other prearranged or automated means for making contacts happen.
Why can't we just get on the radio and call CQ and tune the bands
answering CQs and make contacts. This is how I have been doing it
for years and I think the results have been pretty good. My results
would be even better if everyone else did this too and for more of
the contest period and in more directions - all of our scores would
be better.
I love doing radio contests - I have been doing them for a long time -
and the thrill of getting called out of the blue by some week DX
station or tuning the band listening to white noise and hearing that
station 500 miles away is what keeps me coming back - it is fun.
Sure, it would be easier to make skeds or call him on the phone or
send him an IM message - but that kills most of the fun.
I have rambled on a bit, but I guess the bottom line for all of the
stations in the contest is - operate more, CQ more, tune the bands
more and you will make more contacts with more grids we all will.
I will close with one real example of how important it is to stay in
the chair and to make noise and to tune the bands.
I was operating the june vhf contest one year in a multi op. It was
Sunday afternoon - things were very very slow on all the bands above 6
meters. The 2m and up op had been working hard but he got up to go
get something to eat and drink. I was not operating and I think he
might have said something to the effect that the bands were tough
pretty much worked out. But, I thought, I will sit down just because
the chair is empty. I tuned around and indeed it did not sound very
good - but I kept at it for a few minutes. All of the sudden there
was a very strong K3 station on 2 meters. I called and worked him -
it was Eskip and a new mult. I tuned quickly and heard no one else.
I called CQ and in the next 8 minutes or so I worked 13 stations in 11
new grids and then the band closed.
Stay in the chair and make noise.
Good luck in the next contest.
--
George Fremin III - K5TR
geoiii@kkn.net
http://www.kkn.net/~k5tr
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:23:03 -0500
From: "K1IIG" <stephen.tripp@snet.net>
Subject: [VHFcontesting] Jan Contest
To: <VHFcontesting@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <001901c85f6e$904ce960$0700a8c0@K1IIG>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Finally got my email posting problem cleared up, thanks to list
adminstrator. I truly enjoyed the contest and also enjoyed the posts on
this service. Now operating on 7 bands, 6m-2304 with 4 radios and
pleased with my score but is lousy compared to other sysops. Did it the
old fashion way, no pingponging, internet or landline skedding, wifi,
diskjockeying, wsjt and not even a dvr. If others use these methods of
contesting and it is legal, go for it. Have fun, that's what it is all
about.I live in a tough ham area with a lot of high power contesters
such as K1TEO, WZIV and other power houses, a couple towns away plus a
neighbor one street away. I too run high power and wish to compliment
them and all the hams in this area who did such a great job "bobbing and
weaving" to avoid each other. Not once did I hear a complaint nor did I
give one, yet we had to kill each other at times. With 50 years of ham
radio under my belt, I feel lucky to be surrounded by these polite
operators a
nd knowledgeable hams which a few gave me some great help with my
contest station. Now if I can clean up my act, hone my operating skills
and some of the big guns take up another hobby, I might have a
chance..hihi
73's to all and cu in June or maybe a sprint of two..
Steve
K1IIG
Band Q's,Grids shown
50 110 23, 144 121 20, 222 23 8, 432 48 11, 903 11 4, 1296 18 4, 2304 7
3
SCORE= 39785
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:45:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Duane - N9DG <n9dg@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] VHF sked alternative
To: George Fremin III <geoiii@kkn.net>, k4gun@comcast.net
Cc: VHF contesting list <vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <554939.91492.qm@web53012.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
In line below..
--- George Fremin III <geoiii@kkn.net> wrote:
> In all contests - people miss working mults on various
> bands - this
> happens in HF contests and VHF contests. The folks that
> tend to work
> more multipliers and more contacts tend to be the ones that
> work harder at it in various ways.
>
> - They stay in the chair.
Check Mark.
> - They tune the bands.
Check Mark.
> - They move or switch between antennas for different
> directions.
Check Mark.
> - They call a lot of CQs.
Check Mark.
> - They have better antennas and signals.
Check Mark.
> - They have operated many many contests and learned from
> their
> experiences and gained knowledge of callsigns and
> operating habits of the other stations.
Check Mark.
> - Much of what they have learned has become second nature
> to them.
Check Mark.
>
> I am sure I could expand on this list - the most important
> is the
> first one - you will not work that rover in that grid that
> you need
> off eating dinner or watching TV or mowing the lawn while
> he is calling CQ.
It never fails that when I try to take a quick food break I
will hear a new station pop up just as I sit at the dinner
table. This happens even after a half hour or more of no Q's
at all.
> You need to be sitting in front of the radio
> operating
> the contest during the contest period. My guess is that
> this would
> improve most stations VHF scores more than just about
> anything.
My own "casual" vs. "serious" efforts have proven this to be
true repeatedly. If I put in roughly the same number of hours
doing S&P only vs. calling CQ and tuning around all of the
bands my score is roughly 50% or less than a full out effort
score which includes active band searching (which includes
antenna compass sweeps) and fairly steady CQ'ing.
> One of the things about the VHF contest culture that I have
> never really
> understood is this need / desire to make skeds, or have
> some sort of
> spotting via APRS or even via telephone (still happens via
> telephone) or
> some other prearranged or automated means for making
> contacts happen.
I have never understood this either. I find the
unpredictable-ness and the learned ability to "read the
bands" and the various subtleties of minor propagation shifts
to be the fun part of VHF contesting. What I think is the
most insidious undesirable side effect of spotting and rigid
scheduling is that it generates a perception that many of the
7 items listed above are not as important to score well in
VHF contesting. That perception hurts contesting in general.
> Why can't we just get on the radio and call CQ and tune the
> bands
> answering CQs and make contacts. This is how I have been
> doing it
> for years and I think the results have been pretty good.
FWIW an upper Midwest big gun SOLP has won 1st place often by
doing primarily this.
> My results
> would be even better if everyone else did this too and for
> more of
> the contest period and in more directions - all of our
> scores would be better.
Yupp, aggree 100%.
>
> I love doing radio contests - I have been doing them for a
> long time -
> and the thrill of getting called out of the blue by some
> week DX
> station or tuning the band listening to white noise and
> hearing that
> station 500 miles away is what keeps me coming back - it is
> fun.
Yupp.
> Sure, it would be easier to make skeds or call him on the
> phone or
> send him an IM message - but that kills most of the fun.
I rarely attempt skeds. I haven't found them to be
productive. I also find that it's hard to guarantee that I
can hit them on time, and often the other party can't be
there on time either. That time missmatch would be / is
better spent "working the bands" elsewhere.
> I have rambled on a bit, but I guess the bottom line for
> all of the
> stations in the contest is - operate more, CQ more, tune
> the bands
> more and you will make more contacts with more grids we all
> will.
Yupp.
> Stay in the chair and make noise.
Yes please. And in between those CQ's tune around a bit too.
And a good waterfall / panadapter display goes along ways
towards actively staying on top of things too.
Duane
N9DG
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