Richard,
I made some time to do some very brief testing this evening ...
Looking at the WinKey command channel in Router, I do in fact see
a WinKey "Busy" status report immediately after sending the "insert"
message on the second radio. This is followed almost immediately
by a WinKey "not busy" status report and transmit focus switches
back to the "run" radio.
I have no (easy) way to record time stamped traces of the WinKey
command channel, the MK2R+ "protocol" commands and the actual
PTT closures in separate files for comparison. However, I am
relatively convinced that this issue and the "short dah and
PTT on focus switching" are related to the WinKey status lag.
If WinKey is generating a CW element, the element (dit or dah)
must finish and any PTT Tail must time out before WinKey will
release PTT and return a "Not Busy" status message. Here is
the timing data:
1) Winkey's "fixed" PTT Tail is one word space plus PTT tail.
One word space is seven dits long: 135/WPM msec. Assuming
a minimum speed of 5 WPM, the tail is 27 + (PTT tail)
2) If WinKey is generating a dah when it receives a command
to end a message (to change focus), it could take up to
three dit lengths before the dah is finished. At 5 WPM
that could be almost 12 msec.
3) WriteLog appears to set WinKey to a fixed 260 msec tail
(other software use different tail lengths - some leave
it user configurable).
The total is 27 + 12 + 260 = 299 msec.
The WinKey status reports can be delayed by up to 50 msec
by other activity on the USB - depending on other devices,
etc.
Thus, for WriteLog when changing focus or doing an "insert"
message on the "other" radio - assuming PTT in CW - the logic
should be:
1) send <escape> to end current message
2) wait 300 msec (400 msec might be better) for everything
to finish assuming minimum CW speed
3) Change transmit focus
4) send next message on "new" radio.
The switching delay can be reduced if QSK operation is chosen
but a small minimum delay is still necessary to allow for
completion of the current CW element and receipt of the "Not
Busy" status report from WinKey. A minimum delay of 50 to
75 msec is probably advisable.
As a first cut at a resolution to the issue that effects several
programs, I would recommend that software authors implement a fixed
75 msec delay between the termination of a message (either normal
termination or an <escape>) and issuing a "change transmit focus"
command in QSK operation and a 400 msec (or "PTT Tail" plus 150
msec) delay when using WinKey PTT. I think modern compilers
support a non-blocking wait command that will allow other functions
(rig polling, telnet, etc.) to continue during the wait period.
73,
... Joe, W4TV
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard L. King [mailto:k5na@ecpi.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:02 PM
> To: Joe Subich, W4TV; writelog@contesting.com
> Cc: ve3gsi@sympatico.ca; microHAM@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE:SO2R with Writelog
>
>
> Hi Joe.
>
> I think you are right that this is a Writelog timing issue
> with the MK2R+.
>
> Here is another interesting fact that I just discovered.
>
> If I am CQing on radio one and wait until the pause before hitting F4
> on the second radio, it works.
>
> If I am CQing on radio one and hit F4 on the second radio before the
> CQ has completed, it fails.
>
> Also, dueling CQs basically works. But if you enter a call and hit
> the INSERT key to send the exchange before the other radio has
> stopped CQing, the exchange is sent to the wrong radio. If you wait
> until the pause after the other radio's CQ, then the exchange is sent
> to the correct radio.
>
> I suspect I will have to use PC Generates for my CW sending this
> coming weekend in the ARRL DX CW. But I am not making much progress
> figuring out why I now have choppy CW since a couple of months ago.
>
> Thanks to everyone who has been trying to help me with this.
>
> Richard - K5NA
>
>
>
> At 16:45 2/11/2008, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>
> >Richard,
> >
> >VE3GSI also reports the same problem with dueling CQs. I think
> >it is a WriteLog issue involving WinKey but I have not had time
> >to investigate. My guess is that it's an issue with the timing
> >of commands to WinKey, responses from WinKey and switching radios.
> >The symptoms also seem to appear (if I recall previous comments)
> >with WinKey and LPT control (traditional SO2R). My suspicion is
> >that the WinKey "Not Busy" message from the first radio (after the
> >CQ message is aborted) is being received just after transmit focus
> >has switched to the second radio. WriteLog assumes that this means
> >the insert message (e.g., K5NA) has completed, returns to the first
> >radio and generates the message (F1 instead of F4) there followed
> >by the timed CQ.
> >
> >So far this is only a SWAG but switching transmit focus before
> >receiving the "Not Busy" status from WinKey is also involved in
> >causing a short DAH on the second radio if the user switches
> >radios (up/down arrow) while a message is in progress.
> >
> >73,
> >
> > ... Joe Subich, W4TV
> > microHAM America
> > http://www.microHAM-USA.com
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microHAM
> > support@microham.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: writelog-bounces@contesting.com
> > > [mailto:writelog-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> Richard L. King
> > > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:03 PM
> > > To: writelog@contesting.com
> > > Subject: [WriteLog] SO2R with Writelog
> > >
> > >
> > > I need some help again to make something work on my MK2R+ with
> > > Writelog. I had this problem a year ago, but was told
> that it should
> > > work when Writelog implements support for the MK2R.
> > >
> > > Now I am running Writelog 10.65C that should have support for the
> > > MK2R but the problem is still there. Here is what happens.
> > >
> > > I have a CQ TEST in F1.
> > >
> > > I have "K5NA" in F4.
> > >
> > > I am running in SO2R mode and using auto repeat (3
> seconds) and auto
> > > resume to send the F1 CQ on radio one.
> > >
> > > The headphones are switching and I am listening on radio two when
> > > transmitting on radio one.
> > >
> > > I use the "shift arrow" key to move the keyboard focus
> from radio one
> > > to radio two. Radio one continues to call CQ with the
> transmit focus
> > > still there.
> > >
> > > I decide to drop my call in on radio two using the F4 key.
> > >
> > > This is where things go wrong.
> > >
> > > When I hit F4, radio one only stops for an instant. The
> PTT switches
> > > to radio two and then immediately back to radio one.
> Nothing is sent
> > > on radio two even though the PTT was made briefly.
> > >
> > > Radio one has immediately started CQing again. When that
> CQ completes
> > > there is no pause and another CQ starts immediately.
> Then, finally,
> > > after the second CQ the 3 second delay will be injected
> between CQs
> > > again. Then it starts CQing normally with the 3 second delay
> > > between CQs again.
> > >
> > > With the auto CQ and auto resume on, I cannot send on the second
> > > radio by moving the keyboard focus there.
> > >
> > > Is there something that I have missed in the Router or
> Writelog that
> > > makes this work correctly? I have been playing with settings and
> > > reading material and I can't get any ideas.
> > >
> > > I am cross posting this to Microham in case it is a MK2R or
> > > Router issue.
> > >
> > > 73, Richard - K5NA
> > >
>
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