See comments below...
-----Original Message-----
From: WriteLog [mailto:writelog-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ed Muns
Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2019 8:19 PM
To: 'Jeff Stai'; 'Writelog Reflector'; 'Wayne'
Subject: Re: [WriteLog] digirite issues during the WW
Comments below .
Ed W0YK
-----Original Message-----
From: WriteLog <writelog-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of Jeff Stai
Sent: 01 September, 2019 13:24
To: Writelog Reflector <writelog@contesting.com>; Wayne
<support@writelog.com>
Subject: [WriteLog] digirite issues during the WW
Observations and suggestions. Overall a heck of a nice piece of code and I
very much preferred it over using WSJT-x.
[Ed Muns] Strongly agree. This was confirmed again during the 22 hours I
spent in WW Digi. I really like WriteLog's RTTY and digital software
design.
1. Check boxes unchecking. At various times - when re-sending - the check
boxes for the QSOs in progress, Calculated next, and/or the Automatically
Transmit Next would simply uncheck. One example would be answering a CQ,
then not seeing a CQ for a couple cycles, then seeing the CQ but whoops the
box is not checked so I don't get my answer sent in the next cycle.
Another case was I was calling CQ and saw a multiplier pop up in the CQ
window. I quickly clicked on the call and Automatically Transmit Next was
unchecked and I missed responding. And more than once I saw the call get
unchecked in QSOs in progress after just one or two resends.
In none of these cases and others was I anywhere close to the 5 minute
inactivity timeout. Maybe 2 or 3 minutes at the most.
[Ed Muns] The logic needed in DigiRite for handling QSO message sequencing,
given all possible situations, is daunting, though at first glance it may
seem simple. I'm impressed it works as well as it does at this point in its
development with the limited amount of experience users have had with it.
Check boxes "uncheck" for reasons other than timeouts. They may need to
uncheck based on what is happening in the QSO sequence(s). This is
especially true for the Calculated next pane where "next" is the next QSO
phase. Not only do boxes check and uncheck, but calls come and go.
DigiRite is trying to figure out what the next best move is and let the user
know.
[Don AA5AU] Having "Automatically transmit next" box un-check I thought was
due to the 5-minute timer but now I don't know. It seemed to do it a lot and
at the wrong time.
....
2. Scrolling in the CQ windows needs to be more "RTTYrite-like" and not
jumping around while populating. Trying to click on a moving target
resulted in some erroneous calls and lost Qs. Ditto the Messages to me
window (I operated with Auto respond unchecked.) I gather some sort of
prioritization is going on? But I prefer to choose who to contact next.
[Ed Muns] Agree that clickable lines in a pane cannot be moving around. The
RttyRite scroll technique is innovative and being copied by others for just
this reason.
[Don AA5AU] OK, yes I agree, I had the same issue. Went to click on a call
and it clicked another call instead because the "CQ heard" pane had not
completely finished receiving calls. With FT4 you don't have a lot of time
and once you click on the wrong call, you can't fix it.
3. Calculated next - often was blank but the right next message was chosen
and sent anyway.
[Ed Muns] Agree. Work in progress.
[Don AA5AU] The message doesn't appear fast enough in "Calculated next to
send" to know if something is going to be sent or not. I was frustrated time
and again when I went S&P to call a station while I had CQ enabled. This is
what happens.
CQ W0YK CM97
W0YK AA5AU R EL49
AA5AU W0YK RR73
CQ AA5AU EL49
I don't think this is right. We can debate it. I would think my last
transmission should be W0YK AA5AU RR73. I understand the rationale behind
going right back into a CQ. But it gets cloudy when I don't receive the W0YK
AA5AU RR73 message on the first try. It goes like this:
CQ W0YK CM97
W0YK AA5AU R EL49
nothing copied from W0YK
W0YK AA5AU R EL49
nothing copied from W0YK
W0YK AA5AU R EL49
AA5AU W0YK RR73
CQ AA5AU EL49
W0YK may be thinking that the QSO is not complete because I went right back
into CQ without sending RR73 and he does not log it. We are both out of a
contact.
I got good at turning off CQ. When I turned off CQ while S&P, sometimes it
sends the ending RR73, but sometimes it sending NOTHING AT ALL like this:
CQ W0YK CM97
W0YK AA5AU R EL49
AA5AU W0YK RR73
...DigiRite sends nothing...
I'm sitting there looking at "Calculated next to send" and don't see
anything then realize nothing is getting sent. I finally use "Alternate
messages" to send the RR73 message but it's a cycle or two too late. This
was the biggest issue I had with DigiRite all weekend. I use "Alternate
messages" to send RR73 for probably half my contacts.
....
4. Sometimes I would see the expected message in the conversation window
but a repeat was sent as if the message hadn't been recognized.
[Ed Muns] Yes, this needs to be considered along with other feedback.
[Don AA5AU] Not sure what you mean by this.
5. "Starting a QSO by answering a CQ message is the only way that DigiRite
puts its QSO's transmit frequency on the other station's RX frequency."
Someone needs to explain why this is desirable.
[Ed Muns] Ah, I can proudly answer this one because it tripped me up until I
was enlightened with the very elegant solution that somehow I missed in the
docs. If you left-click on a CQ message line (not the checkbox, but the
text line itself), your transmit frequency is zero beat with the CQer. If
you right-click, your transmit frequency is split (where you have your
transmit frequency set).
This is VERY handy, because dynamically you can effortlessly choose where to
transmit. Most of the time I right-click, but occasionally I may choose to
left-click when, say, the CQer is on 14.082.500. In cases like this I can't
know where his radio dial frequency is set. He could be at 14.080 with an
audio frequency of 2,500 Hz, or he could be on 14.082 with an audio
frequency of 500 Hz. If he and I are on different dial frequencies, it is
possible my TX frequency won't be in his RX passband so he can't hear me.
Zero-beating eliminates that possibility.
Over in the WSJT groups I see that it is considered poor practice to
transmit on the RX frequency - which I can see because someone could
already be using the other cycle. Usually I have gone to the trouble of
finding a clear place and I'd like to stay there. And if I am CQing and I
see a multiplier appear I want to be able to snag it and keep in my clear
spot.
I'd prefer to see a "Hold TX" like on WSJT-x so I keep my place no matter
what, or maybe let's just not do this?
[Ed Muns] In general, I agree, but there can be exceptions like the example
above. Fortunately, WriteLog makes it easy to do what's best, on the fly.
[Don AA5AU] I like the right-click, left-click on CQ heard stations to
determine whether to call on a station's frequency or your own. BUT, I don't
like the fact that you cannot change your TX frequency once the QSO is
started. I complained to Wayne about this and his answer was reasonable and
it was based on the use of more than one stream. I get it and that's fine.
But when streams is set to one, I think one should be able to change his
transmit frequency at any time during a QSO. In order to change your TX
frequency (other than going to your QSO partner's frequency) is to get rid
of the call in the QSOs in Progress pane, move TX frequencies, then use
"Alternative messages" to call the station on the new frequency.
6. I was amazed at seeing so many strong signals in the Transceive window
but seeing so few decodes as a result. Not sure what to make of that...
[Ed Muns] If the clock sync is off on a strong signal, it may not decode.
Or there can be other signal irregularities that prohibit decoding. It's no
different than WSJT-X. Probably because the decoder is the same software!
[Don AA5AU] I guess I wasn't paying attention. I did see some signals on my
CQ frequency that didn't decode. I looked up in the top window to see if
maybe another station was on the same frequency but not calling me. Most of
the time I didn't see a decode. I have to think others didn't have their
clock right. I use Karen's Time Sync to sync my clock. I've used it for
years and years with no problem. I sync every 30 minutes. My PC clock
usually doesn't go off that much in 30 minutes.
7. I'll echo the request I saw elsewhere for being able to do the longer
sequence with signal report when the other op expects it. I found I was
able to click and choose the alt message if I was quick but I had to be
right there after seeing the decode in the conversation window. I see this
as analogous to a RTTY op getting conversational on you in a contest. It's
just polite practice, even if you'd rather not... :)
[Ed Muns] The Alternate messages worked well for me in this regard, with the
exception that at times (which I couldn't predict), selecting an Alternate
message ALSO required checking the Manual Edit checkbox before the message
went out. Until I understand what I'm doing wrong (or, if a bug, it is
fixed) my work-around is to quickly check the two boxes. Even so, I was
able to do it fast enough to enable smooth message flow . even SO2R.
[Don AA5AU] Yeah, the "Alternative messages" are great but if things are
working correctly, they should rarely need to be used. If you click on one
of the messages, it puts a check on that message and also a check on "Manual
edit". If you have two check there, the message gets sent twice. I know, I
sent RR73 message twice a hundred times. So you have you to check the
message you want to send, it puts the message in "Manual edit", then uncheck
either the message you originally checked or "Manual edit" and the message
gets sent only once. I'm sure Wayne will fix this.
8. I wish I had taken a screen shot of this, but last night I was noticing
some weirdness in the number of points per QSO. Stuff like an N5 being 5
points while a CE is 3 points. Also my score was like 4000 something. I
made a mental note the check on it later.
[Ed Muns] I would have taken issue with this observation, based on my prior
experience, but ZW5B, which is PY5EG's station, gave me 4 points. I would
have guessed 2. So, maybe there is a glitch, but it doesn't matter. The
log check software calculates points and ignores whatever the logger says.
We ignore the Cabrillo Claimed Score in the Raw Scores listing, rather using
the log check software to calculate score without any log check error
considerations.
[Don AA5AU] The only issue I found with scoring was that when you are in the
middle of the country like I am and DX conditions suck, you get one point
for every QSO. I didn't see any scoring problems but I wasn't paying close
attention.
This morning after I made my Cabrillo I went to do my 3830 post. That's
when I noticed my score was now 2000 something and my points now appeared
correct. I don't know when this change happened and I'm reasonably certain
I wasn't on drugs.
[Ed Muns] Well, I'm not sure I can corroborate the drug part, but glad the
score seemed reasonable. BTW, some of the 3830 scores do seem off, either
low or high, but that's just an anecdotal observation.
[Don AA5AU] The only other issue I can think of now is when you are the CQ
station, another station answers, you send RR73 but the other station didn't
receive it and sends their grid again and WriteLog then sends R + Grid
message instead of RR73. Like this:
CQ WW AA5AU EL49
AA5AU VE6AX DO20
VE6AX AA5AU RR73
AA5AU VE6AX DO20
VE6AX AA5AU R EL49
Why not just send VE6AX AA5AU RR73 again?
....
Thanks! jeff wk6i
--
Jeff Stai ~ WK6I ~ wk6i.jeff@gmail.com <mailto:wk6i.jeff@gmail.com>
RTTY op at W7RN
Twisted Oak Winery ~ http://www.twistedoak.com/
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