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Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 93, Issue 9

To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 93, Issue 9
From: K3vw@aol.com
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:29:10 EDT
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
I, K3VW, then, WB3GCG of Brandywine, Md. had a pair of phased delta loops  
on two 150' towers, back in the 70's & 80's. A wire yagi would have taken up 
 more space then I had available at the time. My Delta loop system worked 
quite  well. Willy Worth K3VW   Selma, NC
 
 
In a message dated 9/10/2010 3:01:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
topband-request@contesting.com writes:

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Today's Topics:

1. 160 wire  yagi (Craig Clark)
2. Re: 160 wire yagi  (lars.harlin@one.se)
3. Re: 160 wire yagi (Pete  Parisetti)
4. Re: 160 wire yagi (Mirko S57AD)
5. 9M2AX (David Raymond)
6. Twinax (Larry  Pasman)
7. Re: 160 wire yagi (Mauri)
8. Re:  160 wire yagi (Jorge Diez -  CX6VM)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:  1
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 15:18:05 -0400
From: "Craig Clark"  <jcclark@myfairpoint.net>
Subject: Topband: 160 wire yagi
To:  <topband@contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <006f01cb5053$bc5b7890$351269b0$@net>
Content-Type:  text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 8  Sep 2010 13:54:53 -0300
From: "Jorge Diez - CX6VM"  <cx6vm.jorge@adinet.com.uy>
Subject: Topband: 160 wire yagi
To:  <topband@contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <004601cb4f76$8f260580$ad721080$@jorge@adinet.com.uy>
Content-Type:  text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Hello,

Anyone tried a  160 mts wire yagi?

Will appreciate some info about the performance and  construction.

I have a 120 ft tower and some big trees far apart, my  idea is to do the
wire yagi from the tower to the tree. The heights are not  the same, will
have a rope from from 120 ft high in the tower to 55 ft high  in the tree
where I will hang the elements, sloping to the ground.

I  have a tree in front of the tower and in the back, so I can do the  yagi
with the reflector lower than the driven element and the director,  or
viceversa, wich one is  better?

73,

Jorge

CX6VM/CW5W


Jorge

If  my mind had not completely addled, Denny Had, K8KXK, from Dentron build 
 a
two element bi-directional 160 beam and published it but I cannot find  a
reference to it on Google. I'll look later to see if it is in one of  my
antenna files.

Craig


Craig Clark  K1QX
Radioware
PO Box 209
Rindge NH 03461
603 899 6957  
www.radio-ware.com






------------------------------

Message:  2
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:22:35 +0200
From:  lars.harlin@one.se
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 wire yagi
To: "Craig Clark"  <jcclark@myfairpoint.net>
Cc:  topband@contesting.com
Message-ID:
<a1b61a243c39651035503cbf08b57394.squirrel@webmail.bahnhof.se>
Content-Type:  text/plain;charset=utf-8

> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010  13:54:53 -0300
> From: "Jorge Diez - CX6VM"  <cx6vm.jorge@adinet.com.uy>
> Subject: Topband: 160 wire  yagi

> Hello,
>
> Anyone tried a 160 mts wire  yagi?
>

My suggestion is that you use your energy to build phased  verticals
instead. Probably a much better choise, as the height 120' - 55'  is much
to low to get a Yagi for 160m to perform. It will become a "cloud  heater"
with high ground losses.

73 de  Lars/SM3BDZ



------------------------------

Message:  3
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 09:49:04 +0200
From: Pete Parisetti  <hb9dsu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 wire yagi
To: Craig  Clark <jcclark@myfairpoint.net>
Cc:  topband@contesting.com
Message-ID:
<AANLkTik2wQsPrhhsqb6uQXfgOk6gDxCX8-VH3jOypCc+@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Top contest station IR4T in Modena,  Italy, has a two element wire beam
suspended from a water tower at 210'.  Performance, as I remember from 15
years ago, was astounding - once we  managed to break the US pileup on
4U1UN...

The design was the work  of Maurizio, I4JMY, who I believe reads this list.
You may want to contact  him directly for more information.

73/DX

Pete

On Thu, Sep  9, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Craig Clark <jcclark@myfairpoint.net>  
wrote:

> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 13:54:53  -0300
> From: "Jorge Diez - CX6VM"  <cx6vm.jorge@adinet.com.uy>
> Subject: Topband: 160 wire  yagi
> To: <topband@contesting.com>
> Message-ID:  <004601cb4f76$8f260580$ad721080$@jorge@adinet.com.uy>
>  Content-Type: text/plain;        charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello,
>
> Anyone tried a 160  mts wire yagi?
>
> Will appreciate some info about the performance  and construction.
>
> I have a 120 ft tower and some big trees far  apart, my idea is to do the
> wire yagi from the tower to the tree. The  heights are not the same, will
> have a rope from from 120 ft high in  the tower to 55 ft high in the tree
> where I will hang the elements,  sloping to the ground.
>
> I have a tree in front of the tower and  in the back, so I can do the yagi
> with the reflector lower than the  driven element and the director, or
> viceversa, wich one is  better?
>
> 73,
>
> Jorge
>
>  CX6VM/CW5W
>
>
> Jorge
>
> If my mind had not  completely addled, Denny Had, K8KXK, from Dentron 
build
> a
> two  element bi-directional 160 beam and published it but I cannot find a
>  reference to it on Google. I'll look later to see if it is in one of  my
> antenna files.
>
> Craig
>
>
> Craig  Clark K1QX
> Radioware
> PO Box 209
> Rindge NH  03461
> 603 899 6957
>  www.radio-ware.com
>
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> UR RST IS ... ... ..9  QSB QSB - hw? BK
>



--  
___________________________
Pete Parisetti MM0TWX - HB9DSU
for  music, ham radio and more
visit  http://www.hb9dsu.com


------------------------------

Message:  4
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:35:40 +0200
From: Mirko S57AD  <miroslav.sibilja@amis.net>
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 wire  yagi
To: topband@contesting.com
Message-ID:  <4C8A09FC.5050203@amis.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi Jorge,

some 20 years  ago at YU1EXY, we spread sloping dipole and reflector (30m 
apart) from 60m  tall building to SW (at 45? angle), which created sloped 
(semi vertical)  yagi toward NW and which performed excellently.  At 
opposite side of  building we had 3 el wire yagi for 80, made in same 
fashion.

As far  as I can recall, guys from Bologna (Italy) used 2 el inv V wire 
yagi  (switchalbe) at their "fungi" (water tower) shack, which also 
preformed  excellently.

IMHO, you need very tall supports for wire yagis, so IMHO  it would be 
better to build either wire 4-square or maybe sloping dipole  array.
K3LR array would be excellent solution as well...

73   Mirko, S57AD

Na 9/8/2010 6:54 PM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM je pisal:
>  Hello,
>
>
>
> Anyone tried a 160 mts wire  yagi?
>
>
>
> Will appreciate some info about the  performance and construction.
>
>
>
> I have a 120 ft  tower and some big trees far apart, my idea is to do the
> wire yagi  from the tower to the tree. The heights are not the same, will
> have a  rope from from 120 ft high in the tower to 55 ft high in the tree
>  where I will hang the elements, sloping to the  ground.
>
>
>
> I have a tree in front of the tower  and in the back, so I can do the yagi
> with the reflector lower than  the driven element and the director, or
> viceversa, wich one is  better?
>
>
>
> 73,
>
>  Jorge
>
> CX6VM/CW5W
>
>  _______________________________________________
> UR RST IS ... ... ..9  QSB QSB - hw?  BK
>
>


------------------------------

Message:  5
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:05:25 -0500
From: "David Raymond"  <daraymond@iowatelecom.net>
Subject: Topband: 9M2AX
To: "TopBand"  <topband@contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <17296AE4C8604A11AF4F1FEBA8D406F5@radiocomputer>
Content-Type:  text/plain;   charset="iso-8859-1"

Ross, 9M2AX, was QRV this  morning CQing on 1832.5 (NA time - between 1130z 
and 1200z).  He was just  copyable here (339) at SR and a few minutes 
after.  The Fall and Spring  equinoxes have been the optimum time to work him 
from NA.  

73. .  .Dave
W0FLS

------------------------------

Message:  6
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:23:04 -0400
From: "Larry Pasman"  <lrpmbt@comcast.net>
Subject: Topband: Twinax
To:  <topband@contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <843E007272B6430B88C1B717BD3635EA@ownerPC>
Content-Type:  text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

I am looking for a cheap  source of some Twinax. Or someone who wants to 
part
with about 150' feet  for my new Waller Flag project.

Larry  W8VVG



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date:  Fri, 10 Sep 2010 17:39:21 +0200
From: Mauri  <i4jmy@iol.it>
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 wire yagi
To: Pete  Parisetti <hb9dsu@gmail.com>
Cc:  topband@contesting.com
Message-ID:  <4C8A5129.4080407@iol.it>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Yes, it's true.
For some years I  used a fixed two elements wire yagi @200 ft (almost 
straight elements),  remotely tuning the passive element as a director or 
a reflector.
Some  precise open wire trasmission line and element lenght allowed a 
remote  capacitor to give the needed amount reactance and reverse its 
sign. (-j  +j)
The antenna pattern was good enough while bandwith was pretty small. So  
far, the passive element had to be tuned precisely from the shack to  
keep currents high in any portion of the band. Obviously, this feature  
made the "split" operation a bit tricky.
Since the yagi impedance  changes if the passive elements tunes as a 
reflector or director (the  spacing was 0.14Wl), and 1.8Mhz is a wide 
band (must think about in  percent), a flat match was impossible all over 
the band and the antenna  SWR was a compromise.
Most of the times, in the favourable headings, the  antenna had the same 
reception of a 660 ft terminated beverage, sometimes  it was better, 
someother worse.
While producing a big signal, receivers  suffered because of the huge 
signals of medium distance continental  stations and for the same reason 
it was not uncommon to sutruggle because  of "splattering" and clicks. 
(as you lower the antenna from ground below  half wave, this problem rises)
Height from ground was (and remains) a key  factor and it's not so easy 
to keep the yagi elements far enough from  terrain.
All considered, unless one has a peculiar situation to utilize, a  
vertical tower as a transmitting antenna and a separate receiving system  
(I'd suggest beverages) could be an easyer, but very effective approach  
for Dxing on 160m.
73,

Mauri I4JMY

Il 10/09/2010 9.49,  Pete Parisetti ha scritto:
> Top contest station IR4T in Modena, Italy,  has a two element wire beam
> suspended from a water tower at 210'.  Performance, as I remember from 15
> years ago, was astounding - once we  managed to break the US pileup on
> 4U1UN...
>
> The design  was the work of Maurizio, I4JMY, who I believe reads this 
list.
> You  may want to contact him directly for more information.
>
>  73/DX
>
> Pete
>
> On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:18 PM,  Craig Clark<jcclark@myfairpoint.net>   
wrote:
>
>



------------------------------

Message:  8
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:53:49 -0300
From: "Jorge Diez - CX6VM"  <cx6vm.jorge@adinet.com.uy>
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 wire  yagi
To: "'Mirko S57AD'" <miroslav.sibilja@amis.net>,
<topband@contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <006301cb5100$5cc70db0$16552910$@jorge@adinet.com.uy>
Content-Type:  text/plain;   charset="iso-8859-1"

Thanks to all for the  help.

Seems will not work right in my situation.

I have plan to  rise a 190 ft tower having in mind the Comtek system of four
folded  slopers, like K3LR use, maybe next year.

So this tall tower also will  help to build the wire yagi, but I understood
from your suggestions that  will be better the slopers system. At least to
have four  directions.

Anyway how about a 3 element wire yagi and one of the  slopers in the K3LR
system to the same direction in GAIN, wich one will  have more gain?

About phased verticals I have a problem that is not  good for me to put too
many radials in the farm, so I prefer something  without radials.

Thanks  again

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

-----Mensaje  original-----
De: topband-bounces@contesting.com  [mailto:topband-bounces@contesting.com]
En nombre de Mirko S57AD
Enviado  el: Viernes, 10 de Septiembre de 2010 07:36 a.m.
Para:  topband@contesting.com
Asunto: Re: Topband: 160 wire yagi

Hi  Jorge,

some 20 years ago at YU1EXY, we spread sloping dipole and  reflector (30m 
apart) from 60m tall building to SW (at 45? angle), which  created sloped 
(semi vertical) yagi toward NW and which performed  excellently.  At 
opposite side of building we had 3 el wire yagi for  80, made in same 
fashion.

As far as I can recall, guys from Bologna  (Italy) used 2 el inv V wire 
yagi (switchalbe) at their "fungi" (water  tower) shack, which also 
preformed excellently.

IMHO, you need very  tall supports for wire yagis, so IMHO it would be 
better to build either  wire 4-square or maybe sloping dipole array.
K3LR array would be excellent  solution as well...

73  Mirko, S57AD

Na 9/8/2010 6:54 PM,  Jorge Diez - CX6VM je pisal:
> Hello,
>
>
>
>  Anyone tried a 160 mts wire yagi?
>
>
>
> Will  appreciate some info about the performance and  construction.
>
>
>
> I have a 120 ft tower and some  big trees far apart, my idea is to do the
> wire yagi from the tower to  the tree. The heights are not the same, will
> have a rope from from 120  ft high in the tower to 55 ft high in the tree
> where I will hang the  elements, sloping to the ground.
>
>
>
> I have a tree  in front of the tower and in the back, so I can do the yagi
> with the  reflector lower than the driven element and the director, or
>  viceversa, wich one is better?
>
>
>
>  73,
>
> Jorge
>
> CX6VM/CW5W
>
>  _______________________________________________
> UR RST IS ... ... ..9  QSB QSB - hw?  BK
>
>
_______________________________________________
UR  RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw?  BK



------------------------------

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End  of Topband Digest, Vol 93, Issue  9
**************************************

_______________________________________________
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

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