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Re: Topband: FW: 43’ 80 Meter Vertical

To: "Rick@dj0ip.de" <Rick@dj0ip.de>
Subject: Re: Topband: FW: 43’ 80 Meter Vertical
From: "Chortek, Robert L." <Robert.Chortek@berliner.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 18:25:03 +0000
List-post: <mailto:topband@contesting.com>
Thanks everyone!  I’ve order some Wireman 26 GA for the top hat wires and 
should be all set.

Much appreciated everyone!!!

73 es DX,

Bob/AA6VB 
Robert L. Chortek

> On Apr 11, 2021, at 6:46 AM, Rick@dj0ip.de wrote:
> 
> [External Email]
> 
> Aha, Joe is right!
> Sorry, I assumed Low Band.
> Sometimes it helps when one can READ!  ☹
> 
> NO PROBLEM:
> https://www.dj0ip.de/vertical-antennas/80m-on-12m-pole/
> Here you will find the typical lengths for 80m.
> Of course lengths vary slightly from one QTH to the next.
> The Top-Hat wires are about 20 ft. long.  Same rules.  Use thin wire for the 
> top-hats.
> 
> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> (Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)
> May the Sunspots be with Us!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband <topband-bounces+rick=dj0ip.de@contesting.com> On Behalf Of Joe 
> Subich, W4TV
> Sent: 11 April 2021 14:36
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: 43’ 80 Meter Vertical
> 
>> On 2021-04-11 5:25 AM, Rick@dj0ip.de wrote:
>> Let's put this in perspective:  for the short pole Bob is using, the
>> top-hat wires are going to be in the neighborhood of 100 ft. long.
>> So we do need a lot of space for this.
> 
> That is for 160 meters.  Bob is building for 80 meters (3545 KHz) so use the 
> info here:
>    <https://www.dj0ip.de/vertical-antennas/80m-on-12m-pole/>
> 
> 73,
> 
>    ... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
>> On 2021-04-11 5:25 AM, Rick@dj0ip.de wrote:
>> I agree with Rick; its better to use 4 top-hat wires.
>> 
>> On my Vertical Antenna page, I originally showed plans for verticals with 2, 
>> 3, and 4 top-hat wires.
>> I now only show the 4-wire version, except for the Inv.-L.
>> 
>> Let's put this in perspective:  for the short pole Bob is using, the top-hat 
>> wires are going to be in the neighborhood of 100 ft. long.
>> So we do need a lot of space for this.
>> 
>> The more top-hat wires, the shorter they need be.
>> But try to keep them equally spaced around the pole and at equal heights.
>> 
>> And, if space is an issue, the only solution is a longer pole.
>> For instance, with the 60 ft. Spiderpole, the 4 top-hat wires are only about 
>> 82 ft. long.
>> And with the 85 ft. Spiderpole, the wires are about 23 ft. long.   (If not 
>> for darn HOA's . . . )
>> 
>> With these longer poles, the top-hat wires should not exit from the top; 
>> these poles are too thin.
>> Drop down one segment and connect the top-hat wires there.
>> 
>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>> (Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)
>> May the Sunspots be with Us!
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Topband <topband-bounces+rick=dj0ip.de@contesting.com> On Behalf
>> Of Richard (Rick) Karlquist
>> Sent: 11 April 2021 00:35
>> To: Chortek, Robert L. <Robert.Chortek@berliner.com>; TopBand List
>> <topband@contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: Topband: 43’ 80 Meter Vertical
>> 
>> 
>>> On 4/10/2021 1:16 PM, Chortek, Robert L. wrote:
>>> Hoping to get some guidance from the antenna gurus here.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Can someone tell me if I added two top hat wires 16 GA THHN sloping at 45 
>>> degrees “about” how long they would need to be to resonate at 3.545 MHZ.
>>> 
>>> Bob/AA6VB
>>> Robert L. Chortek
>> 
>> After SWR, the most overrated goal for ham radio antennas is resonance.  You 
>> should use the amount of top loading that maximizes the radiation 
>> resistance.  Then put an appropriate reactance in series with the antenna to 
>> provide a resistive load to the transmitter at 3545.  The reactance may be 
>> turn out to be inductive or capacitive.  You will also want to make the 
>> series reactance variable somehow unless you only ever want to operate on 
>> 3545.
>> 
>> You would also be advised to use 4 top loading wires instead of just
>> two.  There is a substantial advantage for 4 vs 2.  Beyond
>> 4 top wires (say 8) the benefits aren't worth the trouble.
>> This is explained by the fact that 4 is the maximum number of top wires that 
>> don't couple to each other.
>> 
>> It is also advantageous to pull out the top loading wires to a more gentle 
>> slope if you can.
>> 
>> You can use bare aluminum electric fence wire to reduce weight and wind 
>> loading on the vertical.
>> 
>> 
>> 73
>> Rick N6RK
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