Third Parties

W5XD at W5XD at
Wed Oct 19 09:50:39 EDT 1994

As the average age of amateur radio operators inches on in
in a trend to eventually match the average age of senility, a
ham in Seattle takes an innovative and fun approach to solving
the problem...

...and the cq-contest reflector fills up with commentary
about whether it was legal.

Something is wrong with this picture.
Wayne, W5XD
w5xd at

>From Victor Burns-KI6IM <vburns at>  Wed Oct 19 15:29:58 1994
From: Victor Burns-KI6IM <vburns at> (Victor Burns-KI6IM)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:29:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Contest History On CD ROM
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9410190739.A6571-0100000 at netcom16>


> I thought I would see what the reception out there would be to the idea 
> of having all the past contest results published on CD?
> I have been cleaning up the basement full of CQ's and QST's all tenderly 
> saved for - among other things - the contest results.  I love looking 
> through them from time to time and it occurred to me how neat it would be 
> to be able to search over the years by contest, class, call, etc.  Not 
> that I would ever throw away all the old magazines.... but sure would 
> enjoy the CD.

Good idea-Sounds like a project.  It would be most usefull to put it in 
database format for possible manipulation etc.  Scores vs. solar cycle etc.

Victor- KI6IM
vburns at

>From jholly at (Jim Hollenback)  Wed Oct 19 16:02:09 1994
From: jholly at (Jim Hollenback) (Jim Hollenback)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:02:09 -0700
Subject: Open Logs
References: <199410190401.AA25029 at>
Message-ID: <9410190802.ZM1163 at>

On Oct 18,  9:01pm, Richard Norton wrote:
> Subject: Re: Open Logs
> If I operated in a contest where someone "fed" me bogus calls,
> and my operating and callsign identification skills were
> inadequate to detect this, and the judges' skills and efforts did
> not detect it, I would be happy if a third party would point this
> out. I would not want to receive credit for these contacts.

the question I have is if someone is feeding you calls from the QST silent
key list, how do you detect this during the contest? Or do you look up
each and every call in QRZ! after the contest? This still won't get them
all since it takes up to 10 years for the FCC database to clear. And if
you are operating 10m phone and get a load of new Novice/Tech+ calls, how
do determine they are okay or not?

I am sure I am missing something and would like to find out what.


>From dul at (Ken)  Wed Oct 19 16:34:53 1994
From: dul at (Ken) (Ken)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:34:53 -0400
Subject: Alpha 77Dx for sale
Message-ID: <199410191531.AA15211 at>

FOR SALE:   Alpha 77Dx   with spare Eimac 8877 (both tubes give full output),
		original manual, original shipping cartons, non-smoker, panels
		have no scratches or dents, I ship  $3200.

	    Ken K8ZR	daytime phone:  810-524-4167
			evening phone:  810-344-7176
	    QTH: Detroit, MI

>From Peter G. Smith" <n4zr at  Wed Oct 19 16:36:47 1994
From: Peter G. Smith" <n4zr at (Peter G. Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:36:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: DXBase 4.0 bug
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9410190836.A1802-0100000 at netcom>

Reported on the PVDXSN last night that there is a fairly serious bug in
DXBase 4.0, which causes the program to crash while connected to a
PacketCluster under some circumstances.  I'm not quite clear on the
origins, but apparently the revised program compares the call of the
registered owner with call information that it gets from the TNC, (either
from its MYCALL parameter or from the PacketCluster's incoming packets,
and causes an exit to DOS if they don't match.  Aside from the
philosophical issue, there are apparently some TNCs that don't supply the
information correctly, even when the calls are the same.  This also
doesn't address the situation that can happen when you change from one
node to another and are recognized by the new node as N4ZR-1 (for

AA4LU is working on the problem, I understand.

73, Pete                                       
N4ZR at
"Better, faster,cheaper -- choose any two"

>From Steve Harrison <sharriso at>  Fri Oct  7 01:39:47 1994
From: Steve Harrison <sharriso at> (Steve Harrison)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 12:39:47 +30000
Subject: Open Logs
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.90.941019120204.21648D-100000 at eagle>

On Wed, 19 Oct 1994, Peter G. Smith wrote:

> Let's not rpt not let the lawyerizing do to radio contesting what it has
> done to sailboat racing.........
> .......................Now *all* we need is a consensus among contesters
> that they support that and other basic principles, and maybe we can dodge
> the America's Cup syndrome. 73, Pete                                       
There is a MAJOR difference between almost all other sporting events and 
amateur radio sporting events (at least, for American amateurs): MOOLA. 
Money. And the lack of it for any, repeat ANY, ham events.

Almost ALL, even collegiate, sporting events involve money in some it as simple as media paying schools for the right to televise 
or, in the case of the boat races, actual monetary prizes awarded. That 
is not true of amateur radio, and that is most likely the one single 
reason we have, so far, escaped this "lawyerizing" of contest results. As 
long as the FCC keeps its collective wits about it and insists that 
amateur radio licensees not be permitted to accept compensation, then we 
should be able to avoid the problem of the money-hungry lawyers.

But, there have been rumbles and rumors of certain events having taken 
place through the years where suits were brought by a couple of 
individuals over something having to do with their own involvement in 
hamming versus someone else's involvement; I can't recall any 
particulars, but remember hearing things like "XX0X is sueing XY0Y 
over...". And similarly, I don't recall seeing anything in the ham 
journals about these suits; thus, I conclude that hams, in general, 
recognize when somebody is just running off at the mouth and sueing over 
a purely trivial excuse that has almost no relationship at all to what 
hamming is really about. And that is another reason why I don't believe 
there is any real danger of "lawyerizing" engulfing this forum's 
participants favorite activity: ham contests.

The only reason I can see for anybody to fear having their logs examined 
by peers is because there is something in there that should NOT be 
there..and as Dick, N6AA said, there is almost never anything there that 
really reveals trade secrets of making more valuable Qs than anybody else.

As a guy who has tremendous hearing difficulties, I am, perhaps, a mite 
bit more acquainted with the differences between the ordinary human ear, 
the extraordinary ear and the really poor ear. I recall reading an 
editorial in 73 magazine once by a WA1 (forget his call now) who 
mentioned he watched/listened to Wayne Green, W2NSD, work a bunch of UAs 
one morning that the WA1 could not even hear in the noise, right there at 
Green's shoulder, listening to the same speaker. But the opening 
intensified and signals began to come out of the noise, and the WA1 
finally was able to barely hear the pileup that Green had been working 
for some time. I strongly believe, based on my own performance with, at 
times, a stronger station than guys who have beat me with something a LOT 
less, that this plus a few of the following constitute what contest 
winners are REALLY made of.

I strongly believe that one of the two or three things that separates 
the REAL good contesters from the also-rans is the ability to HEAR. Another 
is to be able to coordinate hearing the other stations with fast 
and accurate logging; N6TR, K2MM and a few others are now showing us all how 
important that is with the Internet Sprint. And another ability is one 
that many of us are able to excel at: constructing able stations. And 
still another is the knowledge and understanding of propagation 
conditions, and making the right judgement when to operate what band. And 
perhaps the most important of all is the ability to bring ALL of these 
things together to a peak at just the right time, sort of like when all 
those so-called biorhythms phase together on the charts. The REALLY great 
contesters are those who actually have some control over all of their 
capabilities, and can thus bring them to a peak when necessary, just as 
any excellent athlete excels at his event.

Now, you tell me which of those are you going to be able to discern just 
from examining your competitor's log? In hindsight, you will see when he 
changed bands and you didn't, or vice versa. But your station is not 
exactly the same as his, so if he were at YOUR operating position, he 
would probably have operated differently in any case..and again, anything 
you see in his log about what bands he was on when would not be of real 
use to you (unless you missed the boat entirely, such as not catching 
that double- or triple-hop Es opening on 10 to Europe or JA...).

You may also see that he worked a lot of stations that you did not...but 
knowing that, what are you going to do about it for the next contest? If 
his ears are that much better that he can hear 6 dB into the noise and 
you, like myself, have trouble even understanding somebody speaking plain 
English, looking at his log will only make you cry (NOW everybody 
understands why I stick to CW all the time, even on V/UHF!!!).

On the other hand, if you don't want others looking at your logs, you are 
likely to be considered to be suspect for putting things in there that 
should not be. Do you really want that reputation?

73, Steve KO0U/4 <sharrison at>

>From H. Ward Silver" <hwardsil at  Wed Oct 19 17:55:33 1994
From: H. Ward Silver" <hwardsil at (H. Ward Silver)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 09:55:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Open Logs and XYL QSOs
Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.9410190930.A4167-9100000 at>

Yes, XYL is an unfortunate term that is a bit wide...

Obviously, the meaning here is for QSOs that never even take place and
calls are simply written into the log, or where family members just walk
into the shack and "talk to Dad or Mom".

Your solution is admirable and certainly within the rules and *spirit* of
the rules.  I wish everyone was as ethical!

73, Ward N0AX

>From WINGS at (Will Roberts)  Wed Oct 19 18:08:14 1994
From: WINGS at (Will Roberts) (Will Roberts)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 10:08:14 -0700
Subject: CT9 and PK232 ?
Message-ID: <199410191708.KAA25880 at>

Anyone using CT version 9 and a PK232 TNC out there? I'm having a 
problem getting the two to behave together. Email if you have
any advice. 73, Will

>From lvn at (Larry Novak)  Wed Oct 19 18:31:23 1994
From: lvn at (Larry Novak) (Larry Novak)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 13:31:23 EDT
Subject: Contest History On CD ROM
Message-ID: <9410191731.AA03934 at>

> Steve-
> > I thought I would see what the reception out there would be to the idea 
> > of having all the past contest results published on CD?
> > 
> Good idea-Sounds like a project.  It would be most usefull to put it in 
> database format for possible manipulation etc.  Scores vs. solar cycle etc.

Yes, it does sound like a project. Maybe a CQ-contest project. I'll
volunteer to do _one_ contest if the idea takes off. I'd recommend some
kind of ASCII tabular format so it can be imported into whatever program
you want to use with it. Maybe CQ and QST have some of the recent
results in electronic form already and would be willing to help.

73, Larry, K3TLX

>From wr6r at (albert crespo)  Wed Oct 19 19:19:02 1994
From: wr6r at (albert crespo) (albert crespo)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:19:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: WR6R/KH^6 CQWW
Message-ID: <199410191819.LAA18955 at>

Will be single op, all band for CQWW. I will be on 160 at my sunset, 
0350- hope to work a whole lot of you!

				73, Al

>From wr6r at (albert crespo)  Wed Oct 19 19:15:13 1994
From: wr6r at (albert crespo) (albert crespo)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:15:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Contest results on CD ROM
Message-ID: <199410191815.LAA18586 at>

 Having ALL ARRL and CQ contest results on CD Rom is a great idea. Much 
better then printing it up and selling it as a book. 

			73, Al

>From Trey Garlough <GARLOUGH at TGV.COM>  Wed Oct 19 19:28:18 1994
From: Trey Garlough <GARLOUGH at TGV.COM> (Trey Garlough)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:28:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Alpha 77Dx for sale
Message-ID: <782591298.646337.GARLOUGH at TGV.COM>

dul at writes:

| FOR SALE:   Alpha 77Dx   with spare Eimac 8877 (both tubes give full output),

Let me reiterate a point that I made just three weeks ago:

> There are a lot of new folks reading CQ-Contest these days.  There
> are now 750 direct subscribers to this mailing list, not to mention
> the numerous readers of JE1CKA's CQ-Contest-Digest and various
> subreflectors.  I thought now was an appropriate time to revisit the
> area of commercial advertising over this mailing list.  In brief,
> don't do it.
> There are already plenty of forums avaliable to sell stuff, like
> and packet BBS's and PacketClusters.  If you are really
> serious about selling something, you will pay $$$ and advertise in
> the National Contest Journal.  Advertising in the NCJ is *cheap* and
> most of the hard core contesters in North America subscribe.
> As the "owner" of the CQ-Contest at TGV.COM mailing list, I can't *make*
> anyone comply with this rule -- it's a gentlemen's arrangement -- but
> I can ask that you comply.  If you fail to comply, then may you
> receive gigabytes of flames.  1/2 :-)
> And if someone makes a commercial posting to CQ-Contest, then feel free
> to send them gigabytes of flames, but do *not* cc your flames back to
> the mailing list!

Just so there is no ambguity here, *DO NOT POST FORSALE MESSAGES TO THIS 

--Trey, WN4KKN/6

>From sellington" <sellington at  Wed Oct 19 15:06:17 1994
From: sellington" <sellington at (sellington)
Date: 19 Oct 94 14:06:17 U
Subject: Open Logs and XYL QSOs

I don't believe I've ever seen an HF contest rule specifying a minimum
distance between stations for valid contacts!

Scott  K9MA
sellington at

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