Contesting and the Internet?

[D. R. Evans]

On 19 Apr 96 at 22:36, frenaye at pcnet.com <frenaye at pcnet.com> wrote:


> Both CQWW and ARRL have no problem with a PacketCluster network being
> connected to the Internet as part of the normal interconnectivity of
> electronic worlds.

Astounding.

> 
> CQ's policy goes on to say that you can't spot yourself (no self
> promotion), and that you can't be directly linked to the Internet.  That
> means you can't have your own PC connected to the Internet to access
> someone else's packet node(one of the many available these days).  Under
> ARRL rules direct links to the Internet are permitted.

But you can link to your next door neighbour, to whom you have loaned a 
PC for the weekend, and that one is connected to the Net. Right?

> 
> Whether a direct connection is something that gives anyone a real
> advantage is another question.  I didn't ask but assume that an Internet
> connection to a "live" receiver isn't permitted under either set of
> rules.
> 

I'm not sure that any assumptions are safe, given that the fundamental 
one that Net connections are not allowed has turned out to be incorrect.

Your note brings loads of very nasty issues to mind regarding
enforceability and what devious people could get away with. Since there
is no logical difference beteen a packetcluster and any other piece of
software, there doesn't seem to be anything to stop one simply
installing an IP switch in a box and connecting through that; after
which one could use the Net however one liked during a contest. You
won't catch me operating in any contests where this is allowed. 

--------------------------------------------------------
D.R. Evans NQ0I / G4AMJ : devans at lynx.colorado.edu
                          al019 at freenet.uchsc.edu

"Palindor Chronicles" information and extracts:
   http://spot.colorado.edu/~romigj/drevans.html
--------------------------------------------------------


>From Jim or Tim Spaulding <tjs at dfw.net>  Sun Apr 21 01:48:46 1996
From: Jim or Tim Spaulding <tjs at dfw.net> (Jim or Tim Spaulding)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 96 17:48:46 PDT
Subject: Contesting and the Internet?
Message-ID: <Chameleon.4.01.3B.960420175234.tjs at hamradio.dfw.net>

I agree with KM9P.  Assistance to a contest station, whether from a spotters, 
2M spots on packet or otherwise, or the internet is really the same.  Those 
of us who do not enjoy the support found in metro areas should not be 
penalized.  Contest rules need not place restrictions on the form of 
assistance used., 
  73 de Jim W0UO/5

>At 10:36 PM 4/19/96 PDT, you wrote:
>
>In a way I like CQ's rule where you can't connect yourself to the internet.
>My take on this is that they have decided that there is no way for you to
>prevent your cluster from being connected to an internet gateway, but you
>can prevent yourself from doing it directly.  Seems reasonable at first
>glance.  
>
>However, I think of guys like K4VX, WB0O, and other remote stations that
>don't have access to a local packet cluster.  The internet access is an
>obvious solution for these guys to enjoy all of the spots that the rest of
>us enjoy.  You prevent them from making direct connects and you further
>isolate them from the advantages the rest of us in urban areas enjoy.  Or
>they simply have a friend nearby connect up to the internet directly and
>pipe the spots over.  So why make a rule that is very simply worked around?
>
>It won't be long before K1EA, K8CC or N6TR come up with a TCP/IP networking
>option for their programs.  Restricting this kind of capability seems silly
>to me.  
>
>Just an opinion.
>
>Bill, KM9P
> ---------------------------------------------
>| Contesting Online... The ultimate           |
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>



>From barry at w2up.wells.com (Barry Kutner)  Sat Apr 20 15:41:17 1996
From: barry at w2up.wells.com (Barry Kutner) (Barry Kutner)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 96 14:41:17 GMT
Subject: Contesting and the Internet?
Message-ID: <iVRomD1w165w at w2up.wells.com>

"Bill Fisher, KM9P" <km9p at akorn.net> writes:

> However, I think of guys like K4VX, WB0O, and other remote stations that
> don't have access to a local packet cluster.  The internet access is an
> obvious solution for these guys to enjoy all of the spots that the rest of
> us enjoy.  You prevent them from making direct connects and you further
> isolate them from the advantages the rest of us in urban areas enjoy.  Or
> they simply have a friend nearby connect up to the internet directly and
> pipe the spots over.  So why make a rule that is very simply worked around?
> 

Bill - There are plusses and minuses of being remote. The negative is 
lack of packet cluster access. the Plus is the big antenna farms that 
grow in the stix.
My understanding is that the Internet connects are one-way, i.e., the 
station receives spots. Is that fair? Here's a multi-multi with a big 
score just sponging off everyone else's spots. Here in PVRC/FRC land, 
guys like W3LPL are at the top of the "number of spots" stats every 
contest. So they give and take. Taht sounds fair to me.
73 Barry

--

Barry N. Kutner, W2UP       Internet: barry at w2up.wells.com
Newtown, PA                 Packet Radio: W2UP @ WB3JOE.#EPA.PA.USA.NA
                            Packet Cluster: W2UP >WB2R (FRC)
.......................................................................


>From David L. Thompson" <thompson at mindspring.com  Sat Apr 20 22:33:57 1996
From: David L. Thompson" <thompson at mindspring.com (David L. Thompson)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 17:33:57 -0400
Subject: Contesting and the Internet?
Message-ID: <199604202225.SAA07325 at borg.mindspring.com>

For the CQ WW 160 Meter Contests, I view internet as another media for
"alert" messages.    Originally there were nets on 2 meters that verbally
passed on spots such as the 147.510 frequency in Metro Atlanta.   Then
packet came along and most spots were passed by packet.   Internet (WEB or
E-mail) solves one big problem...how to manage a large group of spots that
most packet programs (even those connected thru large PC's) stumble on.    I
see internet (is K1EA [or anyone] building an intranet vehicle to tie all
the major packet clusters together?  Those of you into telecommunications
will know what I mean) as the repository for spots and a natural step in the
automation of contesting. 

Any station that uses internet will be a multi op station for the CQ 160
regardless!

Spotting one's own station while not illegal is in bad taste.

73, Dave Thompson, K4JRB
CQ WW 160 Meter Contests Director

PS will be posting the 1996 claimed scores (same as sent to CQ for August
publication) in early May.    Will show the top 75 scores both modes
regardless of class.    Final results will again be in the December CQ.
Still waiting on 1995 certificates!    


>From Eddie Stark <100560.3667 at CompuServe.COM>  Sat Apr 20 23:47:01 1996
From: Eddie Stark <100560.3667 at CompuServe.COM> (Eddie Stark)
Date: 20 Apr 96 18:47:01 EDT
Subject: NEED ROOM FOR DAYTON
Message-ID: <960420224701_100560.3667_EHK56-2 at CompuServe.COM>

Dear friends;

I am Eddie EA3NY, I was late (as usual) to reserve a room for Dayton, anybody
have an aditional room or want to divide the cost of the room???
I will rent a car, maybe you need it too????


pse send e-mail to : 100560.3667 at compuserve.com



Tnx in advance


Eddie Stark
EA3NY / S07NY / EA9AM


>From Jim Reid <jreid at aloha.net>  Sun Apr 21 00:11:50 1996
From: Jim Reid <jreid at aloha.net> (Jim Reid)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 13:11:50 -1000
Subject: Contesting and the Internet?
Message-ID: <1.5.4b12.32.19960420231150.00702e58 at aloha.net>

Aloha,

Have been trying to get W6GO,  keeper of the SF Bay Area Cluster
to allow OH2BA to post spots to his world-wide internet page.
We have no useful DX cluster here in KH6/7 land,  and would be
helpful,  I  think,  to know what is being heard in California.
Not that far East of Hawaii.  So far no interest by them to
allow a telenet tap onto their cluster.  Jukka only takes info,
he posts back nothing.  Brad Wyatt told me,  the Bay Area Cluster
tried a link with Europe awhile back,  and they got to much info
back that was of no use to them around SF,  so they dropped off.
This would not happen allowing Jukka to post their spots on the
internet.

Interesting topic,  but I suspect there is a fair amount of "if we
have them spotted,  why share them with you?" attitude,  tho
would hope this is not the case.

73,  Jim,  AH6NB,  jreid at aloha.net