[CQ-Contest] RBN and CQWW was: Re: CQ WW Update

Wed Nov 24 07:07:56 PST 2010

Regarding Dave's concern about the use of "public", it seems to me 
that's moot, since Skimmer spots are available only by Telnet and Telnet 
is by definition "public."  All this says is that you can't password 
protect the Skimmer or otherwise limit access, and you must publicize 
the address so anyone who wants to can find it.  The easiest way to do 
that is to send spots to the RBN, but I'd also be glad to set up a web 
page as a public registry for IP addresses and/or URLs of Telnet RBN 
servers, if that would be useful

73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 11/24/2010 7:28 AM, Pete Smith wrote:
> Wow, quite a flap.  Our little RBN group has no desire to be singled
> out.  VE7CC does indeed run a Skimmer-enabled node - IIRC you can
> set/skimmer there and get both Skimmer and regular DXcluster spots.  It
> covers, I believe, all the Skimmers on the RBN that have published their
> IP address (some cannot, and some prefer not to).
>
> I think the CQWW rule should be modified slightly to add "and other,
> similar *public* sources of Skimmer spots."  This would permit
> connecting to VE7CC, other aggregators of Skimmer spots, or individual
> Skimmers - as Dave has pointed out, this should be permitted.
>
> Connecting to the any public source of Skimmer spots only gets you
> Skimmer *spots* - it does not get you the Skimmer display of an entire
> swath of the band.  Public Skimmers that are spotting only running
> stations, and aggregators like the RBN that spot only running stations
> on HF, should not be a concern, because they cannot be exploited by any
> individual station to, for example, hear weak Europeans calling them on
> 160.
>
> It seems to me that the ARRL anticipated this in their Skimmer rule,
> which antedated the RBN.  It has 2 key components (my interpretation) -
> any remote Skimmer must be public, and it must not be controlled so as
> to benefit its owner over others. Both of these tests are met by
> connecting to the RBN, to VE7CC, or to any individual public Skimmer run
> by someone else.
>
> On the RBN reliability front - we now have a second server running at
> n4zr.reversebeacon.net port 7000, and have offers of two more.  The plan
> is to use this additional capacity both to spread the load and to add
> redundancy.  Users will be able to connect to telnet.reversebeacon.net
> port 7000 and will be assigned to one of the servers, either in a
> round-robin configuration or in some more fail-safe arrangement, still
> TBD.  Stay tuned.
>
> 73, Pete, N4ZR
> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>
>
> On 11/23/2010 7:10 PM, K1TTT wrote:
>> Ah, but that does not prohibit use of spotting networks, which are
>> specifically allowed by:
>>
>> 4. Single Operator Assisted (All Band or
>> Single Band): ... QSO alerting assistance is
>> allowed (this includes, but is not limited to,
>> packet, local or remote Skimmer and/or
>> Skimmer-like technology, Internet). ...
>>
>> And does that not rely on receivers beyond the 500m circle?  So, if I help a
>> friend set up a receiving system and they put spots into a packet spotting
>> network is that not legal?  If I replace that friend with a skimmer, what is
>> different?  Besides that the skimmer doesn't have to sleep or take bathroom
>> breaks, that is.
>>
>>
>> David Robbins K1TTT
>> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
>> web: http://www.k1ttt.net
>> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Edward [mailto:sawyered at earthlink.net]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 00:03
>>> To: w5ov at w5ov.com; 'K1TTT'
>>> Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com
>>> Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] CQ WW Update
>>>
>>> Unless everyone can use the remote receiver and then its okay...
>>>
>>> Glad I stick to simple unassisted.  More fun...less fine print.
>>>
>>> Good Luck to all this weekend.
>>>
>>> Ed  N1UR
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: w5ov at w5ov.com [mailto:w5ov at w5ov.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:14 PM
>>> To: K1TTT
>>> Cc: w5ov at w5ov.com; sawyered at earthlink.net; cq-contest at contesting.com
>>> Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] CQ WW Update
>>>
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> The pertinent part is:
>>>
>>> 3. All transmitters and receivers used
>>> by the entrant must be located within a
>>> single 500-meter diameter circle or within
>>> the property limits of the station
>>> licensee's address, whichever is greater.
>>>
>>> 4. All antennas used by the entrant must
>>> be physically connected by wires to the
>>> transmitters and receivers used by the
>>> entrant.
>>>
>>> No remote anything is permitted by the above.
>>>
>>> You can download the entire current rules here:
>>>
>>> http://www.cqww.com/rules/CQWW-Rules-2010.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Bob W5OV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Quote the rule.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David Robbins K1TTT
>>>> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
>>>> web: http://www.k1ttt.net
>>>> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: w5ov at w5ov.com [mailto:w5ov at w5ov.com]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 21:47
>>>>> To: sawyered at earthlink.net
>>>>> Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] CQ WW Update
>>>>>
>>>>> It has to do with you installing something outside of your own property
>>>>> solely for your own use. This sort of thing is expressly forbidden in
>>>>> the
>>>>> rules.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Public" systems like this that anyone can connect to are all permitted
>>>>> as
>>>>> "assistance".
>>>>>
>>>>> Private vs. public.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do they provide the same info? Perhaps. But that's not the point.
>>>>>
>>>>> de W5OV
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> It doesn't really matter to me since I never use them.contest or no
>>>>>> contest,
>>>>>> but what exactly is the difference between a personal skimmer located
>>>>> in
>>>>>> Europe (for a W/VE contester) and a European Skimmer that displays
>>> all
>>>>> its
>>>>>> info on the net.  Aren't they both remote CW receivers that are
>>>>> showing
>>>>>> callsigns and frequencies that can be read by the W/VE station?  The
>>>>> CQ
>>>>> WW
>>>>>> rules make it seem like one is way more advantageous than the other
>>>>> but
>>>>> I
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> failing to see why.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed  N1UR
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>>>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
>