[CQ-Contest] WRTC Countdown Is On (K3ZJ

[Ed Parish]

So here is my question. Not based on the ethics of this spotting but on
real life. We all know that fully automated systems sometimes run into
problems. A bad wifi link, a computer crash, etc. What happens when you
don't have the real time data from one of the competitors? Are rhey not
getting real time spots, but every one else is?  Do you shut down the
system until you are certain everyone is "online"? Is there a manual backup
and does that work if communications are down to a particular site?

On Wed, Jun 28, 2023, 19:01 Edward Sawyer <EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for this information Fabio.  So essentially because the logs are
> real time into the central system you are creating an SSB skimmer, not by
> pulling signals off the air like CW Skimmer but by monitoring Qs logged on
> a specific frequency.  While it may “level the playing field” in WRTC, it
> is completely against the rules in IARU Championship for which the rest of
> the world is participating and competing.  It also greatly increases the
> SSB efficiency of WRTC competitors vs non-WRTC competitors.  Affecting
> everybody’s scores even though not competing directly with each other.
>
> The WRTC is happening simultaneously with IARU.  Never before, to my
> knowledge, has a WRTC rule or process, influenced the overall contest for
> others in the contest.  It is after all the IARU Contest that is the norm
> here, not WRTC.
>
> I would ask the committee to rescind this clearly unallowed process in the
> IARU Contest.
>
> Thank you for your consideration of the rest of the contesting community.
>
> Ed  N1UR
>
> From: Fabio Schettino <fabio.e.schettino at gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 3:42 PM
> To: Edward Sawyer <EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com>
> Cc: Jack Brindle <jackbrindle at me.com>; cq-contest at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] WRTC Countdown Is On (K3ZJ
>
>
> Hi Fellow
>
>
> Unfortunately we are too busy to follow these aseptic threads based on
> incomplete and wrong information.
>
>
>
> We will never scan the band looking for SSB WRTC stations, but we have
> developed a complete set of new tools that analyze the log in real time,
>
> to discover possible cheerleading activity.
>
>
>
>  In the meantime we introduced an automatic spot generator that sends only
> ONE spot after a band or mode change and three logged QSOs,
>
> addressing the issue of excessive spotting often associated with
> CWskimmer. This approach helps prevent unfair  advantages and ensures
>
> that SSB QSYs are also appropriately spotted. These decisions have been
> taken to steps up the level of the playing field for all participants.
>
>
>
> The development of these tools involved analyzing various factors,
> including QSO patterns, QSOs from the same operator entity,
>
> spot/log cross-checking, and leveraging AI techniques learned from years
> of Contesting and analyzing a vast number of Contest logs.
>
> This comprehensive approach demonstrates our commitment to improving the
> reliability and fairness of WRTC competitions.
>
>
>
> By implementing real-time log checks with these advanced tools, we hope to
> taking a significant step forward in ensuring the
>
> fairest competition possible for WRTC, we hope that this impressive
> accomplishment should be a positive development for the future of the event.
>
> See u in a couple of weeks
>
> 73 de Fabio I4UFH
>
> WRTC 2022 Vice President
>
>
>
>
>
> Il giorno mer 28 giu 2023 alle ore 03:44 Edward Sawyer <
> EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com<mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com>>
> ha scritto:
> Jack – its worse than that actually.  The organizers will apparently scan
> the bands for SSB signals and spot them for the competitors.  Kind of like
> a manual SSB CW skimmer…
>
> Ed  N1UR
>
> From: Jack Brindle <jackbrindle at me.com<mailto:jackbrindle at me.com>>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2023 4:30 PM
> To: Edward Sawyer <EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com<mailto:
> EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com>>
> Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com<mailto:cq-contest at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] WRTC Countdown Is On (K3ZJ
>
> Ed;
>
> It appears that you are saying that self-spotting is allowed for the WRTC
> participants. Where do you get this? The Competition Rules at
> https://www.wrtc2022.it/en/competition-rules-29.asp seem to explicitly
> outlaw this. What are we missing?
>
> 73,
> Jack, W6FB
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2023, at 1:58 PM, Edward Sawyer <
> EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com<mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com
> ><mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com<mailto:
> EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com>>> wrote:
>
> Sorry but activating a callsign block is not the same as broadcasting them
> continually over the cluster when no one else can do it.
>
> Such decisions should not even be the sole responsibility of WRTC – they
> should be overlaying passively – not hijacking.
>
> Ed  N1UR
>
> From: Richard F DiDonna NN3W <richnn3w at gmail.com<mailto:richnn3w at gmail.com
> ><mailto:richnn3w at gmail.com<mailto:richnn3w at gmail.com>>>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2023 2:54 PM
> To: Edward Sawyer <EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com<mailto:
> EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com><mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com
> <mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com>>>
> Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com<mailto:cq-contest at contesting.com><mailto:
> cq-contest at contesting.com<mailto:cq-contest at contesting.com>>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] WRTC Countdown Is On (K3ZJ
>
> Kind of like how using a callsign block that had not been activated in
> nearly 30 years was re-opened up just for WRTC?  Nobody complained an ounce
> then - in fact it was lauded.  That certainly detracted from working other
> stations.
>
> 73 Rich NN3W
>
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 2:16 PM Edward Sawyer <
> EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com<mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com
> ><mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com<mailto:
> EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com>><mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com
> <mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com>>> wrote:
> Hi Rich.  However, you are affecting the scores of other participants by
> pulling Qs away with a tool that is not allowed by others.  As an example,
> if a record was possible, and scores are lower, this is an unacceptable
> outcome for a group hijacking a contest.  No longer overlaying, but
> selfishly influencing.  Its just not acceptable in my opinion.
>
> Ed  N1UR
>
> From: Richard F DiDonna NN3W <richnn3w at gmail.com<mailto:richnn3w at gmail.com
> ><mailto:richnn3w at gmail.com<mailto:richnn3w at gmail.com>><mailto:
> richnn3w at gmail.com<mailto:richnn3w at gmail.com>>>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2023 2:13 PM
> To: Edward Sawyer <EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com<mailto:
> EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com><mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com
> <mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com>><mailto:
> EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com<mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com>>>
> Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com<mailto:cq-contest at contesting.com><mailto:
> cq-contest at contesting.com<mailto:cq-contest at contesting.com>><mailto:
> cq-contest at contesting.com<mailto:cq-contest at contesting.com>>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] WRTC Countdown Is On (K3ZJ
>
> I mean we're only competing with ourselves within the shell of the IARU
> contest so I don't see what the big deal is.  We're scored differently,
> we're categorized differently, etc.
>
> 73 Rich NN3W
>
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 1:30 PM Edward Sawyer <
> EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com<mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com
> ><mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com<mailto:
> EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com>><mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com
> <mailto:EdwardS at advanced-conversion.com>>> wrote:
> Thanks for this interesting info.  There has been virtually nothing
> relayed by the WRTC Committee to the outside world on what is going to
> happen there.  No site information and obviously no mention of drastic
> inclusions like patronage self-spotting.
>
> Personally, I think that self-spotting on SSB (which in my opinion is
> seriously wrong to hijack an on-going contest in this way) when no one else
> competing can do so within the rules, is completely out of bounds.  To
> "overlay yourself" onto a competition for another purpose is one thing -
> which I have no objection to.  However, to actually then introduce
> interaction which will PULL Qs from the normal contest participants in
> favor of your overlay is unsportsmanlike and unethical.
>
> This is a serious mistake in my opinion and a very dangerous precedent
> being set.  I implore the WRTC group to not do this.  Even the HQ stations
> are not allowed to self-spot in this contest.
>
> Ed  N1UR
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