[SECC] Correction - FTx and contesting

Tue Jun 16 12:08:15 EDT 2020

I've found it's very difficult to have any type of rate on FT8 in a VHF 
contest. Even with 800 watts and a 5 element yagi @ 45 ft I got beat out 
all the time. Also there are some people who don't reply "RR 73 <Their 
Call>" after they call you so you're not sure if you're even in their 
log correctly. Some people claim you could maybe do one contest per 
minute on FT8 but the best I did was maybe one QSO every few minutes or 
even longer. You can do much better on SSB/CW if the band is open.

Here is my breakdown for the VHF contest

CW - 231 QSO's / 33 grids

SSB - 211 QSO's / 56 grids

FT8 - 85 QSO's /  38 grids

My strategy for the VHF contest was to only do FT8 if the band appeared 
dead or there was very low activity on either CW/SSB. So I worked 38 
grids that I wouldn't have worked if I didn't do some FT8. FT8 is also a 
good propagation indicator. If you start copying a bunch of signals 
above 5dB on FT8  that 's a good indicator it was time to QSY back to 
CW/SSB.

I know there is a lot of debate about FT8 but I'm afraid it's here to 
stay. I know there are many that might be set in their ways on how to do 
things and you have to just go with the current trends to maximize your 
score. I'm not a huge fan of digital modes either but I do what I have 
to do to maximize my score. Some say FT8 isn't real radio because it's 
machine to machine. But that's also true for RTTY and EME work which 
have been around forever. Just about all contacts on EME are made with 
JT65, which is very similar to FT8. Also is SOA real radio? You are 
making contacts with stations you didn't find by point and clicking on 
the band map or panadapter. There's a reason why they don't have SOA in 
WRTC. They want the best operators based on their contesting skills not 
their technical skills.

Just my opinion..

Jeff

On 6/16/2020 10:56 AM, Kevan Nason wrote:
>
> Oops. Ed, K3DNE, said the comments below were wrongly attributed. They 
> actually came from a fellow SECC member, Robert AJ5E. Robert also sent 
> me an email asking if I had seen his previous comments -- which for 
> some reason I do not have. Sorry Robert. However, the comments are 
> exactly what I was looking for so I'm glad to have received them.
>
> Kevan N4XL
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: *Kevan Nason* <knason00 at gmail.com <mailto:knason00 at gmail.com>>
> Date: Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:00 AM
> Subject: FTx and contesting
> To: secc <secc at contesting.com <mailto:secc at contesting.com>>
>
>
> Very long…
>
> I had asked what contest skills are needed for FTx contesting. Wasn't 
> happy with the answers here (sorry Scott) so I posed the hypothetical 
> FTx WRTC question to the Swamp Fox Contest Group. Received answers 
> from two good ops. With their permission I pulled out some things to 
> share with the SECC. If there are any amplifying comments or questions 
> from the SECC I will feed them back to the SFCG group.
>
> For credentials, Matt, DJ8OG, is over here from Germany at BMW in SC. 
> He is also licensed here as NU4E. We all know there are some great 
> German operators. Matt was #6 in Germany in the 2018 WRTC standings. 
> (He kicks my butt, or holds his own, here in SC even though I’ve a 
> better station than him.) Ed, K3DNE, moved down here last year. He has 
> been associated for a long time with the PVRC and has been an op at 
> WX3B several times. He had a very respectable 1.9 meg score in the SSB 
> WPX a couple weeks back using a minimal antenna setup. He has been 
> into what I’ve come to call Competitive Contesting for quite a while 
> and knows what he’s talking about. Matt deals with aspects that apply 
> to contesting in general that also apply to FTx. Ed’s comments are 
> more FTx specific.
>
>
> At least for me, their answers encourage me to give FTx contests a try.
>
>
> Kevan N4XL
>
>
> ===============================
>
> Matt NU4E, DJ8OG
>
> I think you have to be aware of the right band conditions, is the band 
> open in a certain direction? Am I making enough contacts, DX, 
> domestic, mults? If not, why? Maybe because someone is using my TX 
> frequency and is covering me, I could hear / see him and act fast 
> (happened to us during the weekend) to look for a clean spot (no 
> arguing in FT8) to continue calling CQ or I could not see him but 
> another station maybe is still transmitting on my frequency in my 
> targeting area. If I think I have a clean QRG to call and in EU there 
> is someone using the same and maybe covering me? You always have to 
> adjust your strategy. You need mults on different bands to boost your 
> score, which areas are open at which times, be there and eventually 
> you get mults your biggest opponent is not making. My elmer once told 
> me to leave a nice 20m SSB run to the US to go down to 40m and call to 
> Asia in my afternoon. I thought he´s crazy but he said you´ll get 
> those mults, they´ll call you and before everyone else is fighting for 
> it in the evening. You can still run USA and don´t need to battle 
> later. So band knowledge is required, no matter what. Even when you´re 
> assisted and have all the tools, doing the right decision at the right 
> time will boost your score. I could proof it back home with my station 
> I beat a M/S station a few miles away from my QTH. They use monoband 
> antennas on all bands, we had the same amplifier and I could beat them 
> because I made other choices which boost my score. Running DX over EU, 
> leaving a run and do important mults. Work with the 2nd VFO to not 
> lose your run QRG but still get those inband mults. Know when it´s not 
> worth to call a station and move on, don´t rely on those things N1MM+ 
> is telling you, at the end you are responsible for your action and you 
> don´t want to blame the software to be the first on 2nd place :-)
>
>
> Ed, K3DNE
>
> Good response from Matt, too:  General operating skills - making good 
> /_strategic_/ decisions about when to run, when to chase mults, when 
> to change bands, etc etc, will almost always take the prize.
>
> FT8 actually has a significant technical skill set.  Let me illustrate 
> by describing two hypothetical operators:
>
> *A novice or non-technical operator:*
>
> ·Fires up the software, picks a band and clicks the shiny *CALL 
> CQ* button.
>
> ·Sips coffee, reads the paper
>
> ·Some minutes later, the *LOG THIS CONTACT* window magically pops up.
>
> ·If boredom sets in, instead of CQ they will look for a "green line" 
> in the Activity window and double-click it.
>
> ·Back to the newspaper.
>
> ·Some minutes later, the *LOG THIS CONTACT* window magically pops up 
> and he's got another QSO!  Awesome!!
>
> ·Rinse and repeat
>
> A novice FT8 op is /_thinking and making decisions every few 
> minutes_/.  The novice operator will lose lots of Qs because they 
> spent five minutes on a hopelessly weak station, or they didn't notice 
> the handshake broke, or the other op started working a different 
> station, or they sent "RR73" but the other station didn't hear it, or 
> any number of things that can derail the FT8 conversation. They 
> weren't ready to react to anything other than " /Hey look, it worked!/"
>
> *A crazy-skilled operator:*
>
> ·Watches the waterfall and activity window for all the activity -- who 
> is talking to whom, who is weak, who is strong, QSB, etc.
>
> ·Looks for a clear spot to Tx, but changes it regularly.
>
> ·Always works split. *Always.*  Okay, /ALMOST/ always.
>
> ·Able to QSY (multiple times in a single QSO) to get around QRM.
>
> ·Will switch from "odd" to "even" to get an overpowering signal off 
> the waterfall.
>
> ·Will turn the VFO to nudge a station at the edge of the audio freq 
> limits into the wheelhouse.
>
> ·Ready to respond immediately when FT8 goes sideways.
>
> ·etc.
>
> The crazy-skilled FT8 op is /_thinking and making decisions 
> constantly_/.  The coffee is cold, and the newspaper is still in the 
> driveway soaking wet.  By staying actively engaged in what's going on, 
> the FT8-savvy op will be able to sustain a higher Q rate, whereas the 
> novice op Q rate will plummet in anything short of ideal conditions.
>
> (All this is just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary.)
>
>
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