[TowerTalk] Fwd: Rohn Bolts AND nuts - won't mate

[Patrick Greenlee]

No argument here Roger but given a choice when product is equal or 
better I would rather put my money into the American economy instead of 
a foreign on, particularly China.  I sure recall the difference in 
rolled aluminum tubes and extruded ones as elements on TV Yagis. When 
re-purposed as wing spars in DIY RC aircraft the extruded were terrific 
and the rolled were useless.

I have been dealing with a retired USAF tech who runs a TV repair shop 
and only recently stopped doing antenna installs.  He concurred with my 
Winegard selection and opined as to how it was better construction than 
the recent Chinese competition. Maybe the next 9 guys would pan Winegard 
quality.  My HD7698P is sched for delivery tomorrow when reality will be 
revealed.

For those who may never have seen it, you might want to take a look at 
tvfool.com which does some interesting propagation predictions for any 
address or Lat-Lon coordinates in the US. based on terrain models etc.

Patrick       NJ5G

On 1/30/2016 11:31 PM, Roger (K8RI) on TT wrote:
> I agree with the purchase at the places where you get cheap products, 
> But when it comes to TV antennas, (for a back ground)  When I was in 
> my 20s and started work at a new job, I also installed TV antennas on 
> the side.  Like most of the younger crowd with at least a little 
> ambition, I tried many side jobs, but settled  on ham radio as a 
> business as well as firearms.  It didn't take long to work out all the 
> good TV antenna installations and I got tired of long days and short 
> nights with a good job and the business out of the home.  I had 
> forgotten some of the ways I tried to make extra spending money.  Most 
> were far too much work for too little money and I definitely was not 
> going back to farming!
>
> At any rate, ALL the TV antennas back then, including Winegard were 
> made cheap. Now that was a long time ago, When we moved here in 84 I 
> installed a relatively small Winegard UHF/VHF antenna with a rotator 
> above the old TH3 at 90 feet. 
> *http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/tower8.htm* It worked well, 
> but the elements were still made from thin, rolled, thin Aluminum 
> sheet. They were very fragile.
>
> Still, on the American made front there is equipment made to a price 
> with over rated equipment and I'm not picking on one company.  Through 
> the years, many of us can recall antennas with outrageous claims. 
> Still today, many gain figures require a grain or two of salt.<:-)
>
> When the 45G went up, I played with a few antennas including
> http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/tower21.htm  , but settled on 
> http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/tower34.htm The photo only 
> shows the TV antenna pointed ESE as we had to remove the one pointed 
> NW while taking the 7L 6-meter C3i down.  The 144 and 440s were next.  
> the antennas made it to the ground safely, but that long, rusty mast 
> got away from him and made it all the way to the concrete, inside the 
> tower ,where it still resides. Amazingly, despite all the noise it 
> made on the way down, it did no damage to the tower. Not even to the 
> galvanizing! The plan is to eventually cut it up and take the short 
> pieces out the side. .
>
> I found that all the TV antennas were all fragile, regardless of the 
> reviews which appeared much like Ham equipment reviews, each had their 
> detractors.  I tried from Radio Shacks imports to Winegard.  I settled 
> for the biggest UHF antennas Radio Shack sold as I saw very little 
> difference in robustness across the lot and little price difference 
> for comparable antennas.  The only thing The Winegard antennas had 
> going for the ones I tried, was the "Made in America", but we are now 
> in a global economy.
>
> As for ham antennas, I like the C19XR, but would like the larger 
> C31XR.  Like most mass produced antennas, it is fragile when on the 
> ground or sawhorses, but rugged in the air (neglecting large migrating 
> birds). I don't have a photo of what a lawnmower tire did to one end 
> of the 20 meter reflector, or the broken boom truss on the 7L C3i from 
> the Cormorants, but "somewhere among over 30,000 plus photos I have a 
> series of the Cormorants on the antenna and truss, just like some 
> where I have a series of photos from the 70s of our full size cars 
> completely covered with snow in the driveway. <:-) OTOH, this is what 
> it did to the TH5 before I could get a climber to get it down. 
> http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/tower36.htm
>
> 73
>
> Roger  (K8RI)
>
> On 1/30/2016 Saturday 12:38 PM, Patrick Greenlee wrote:
>> See the quality of Chinese goods at Harbor Freight and Northern tool 
>> to name two places.  The Chinese are not backward third worlders 
>> devoid of technology, including an understanding of QA and QC. 
>> Stateside resellers of Chinese "junk" like the aforementioned get 
>> exactly what they order.  The "junk" is built to cost. The retailers 
>> like those mentioned above are getting exactly what they are 
>> contracting for. It IS a case of you get what you pay for. Fastenall 
>> has some pretty good Chinese hardware, again, built to a contract 
>> price and quality level.
>>
>> Recall, the Chinese have put folks in space and brought them back 
>> alive.  They have a sophisticated airforce and missile forces. They 
>> can put comm sats in orbit AND shoot them down.
>>
>> They can build technologically complex designs to demanding 
>> tolerances  B U T  not at Harbor Freight prices.  Harbor Freight 
>> price level goods are not representative of Chinese capability. Do 
>> not let cheap Chinese imported junk lull you into a false sense of 
>> security with respect to Chinese capabilities in the market place or 
>> in the battlespace.
>>
>> I am reminded of the defection incident where the Russian pilot flew 
>> a, then, late model MIG to Japan to defect.  At first there were 
>> guffaws of laughter because the Russian avionics was tube based 
>> instead of solid state  A N D   T H E N  it dawned on the team going 
>> over the MIG that it wasn't so backward in capability but was 
>> intended to survive in a nuclear battle space and not be toast from 
>> EMP. Built to a requirement.
>>
>> The shoddy goods we often get from China are precisely what the 
>> contract calls for.  Want better?  Demand it.  Pay for it.  I have 
>> recently cut the cord and trashed Sat TV in favor of Netflix and off 
>> the air TV with a multi-tuner HD DVR for time shifted commercial free 
>> viewing.  Big monetary savings and I don't have to listen to Hindi if 
>> I need support.  I researched to find the best antenna for my deep 
>> fringe purposes.  There are some Chinese antennas that do very good 
>> except in the robustness and quality of fit,  finish and strength of 
>> the aluminum alloy. I ordered American made Winegard. I have queried 
>> installers and expect good quality to be evident when I open the 
>> carton. Home Depot delivered for $110 VS Amazon at about $130.
>>
>> Original post:
>>
>>  Rohn Bolts AND nuts - won't mateIs this just an other example of the 
>> Chinese lack of quality assurance? I have seen mane examples of that 
>> in the past.It appears to me that the "pimples" are made too deep.I 
>> find Rohn's answer despicable. They should just send you a new set of 
>> nuts, nuts that they checked against their own specifications.Hans – 
>> N2JFS ## Even Portland Bolt buys Chinese imported nuts + bolts. Some 
>> of it is good, and some is junk. On a similar note, locally we are 
>> havingone of our 100 year old bridges replaced. Turning into a real 
>> gong show. Main contractor just finished building a new bridge in VE3 
>> land, which ended up getting shut down for several days, bad 
>> expansion joints...in the middle of winter. No alternate path either, 
>> so the trans canadagets cut off...... totally un acceptable. Same 
>> contactor is building our new bridge downtown. His sub contractor 
>> decides to buy steel, and nuts and boltsfrom china. This has turned 
>> into a real disaster, with huge cost overuns, and junk material. The 
>> latest is... you cant even weld to it !! WTF. Dunno what alloythey 
>> are using, buts its not even close to what was originally speced. 
>> Huge sections of it have had to be torn down and new replacement 
>> steel is no where in site.New bridge is not expected to be 
>> functioning till late 2019, way behind schedule. ## Meanwhile, the 
>> head of the Canadian steel manufacturing, that represents all the 
>> various steel manufacturers in VE3 land comes on TV...and sez.... 
>> told ya so. cdn steel makers could have easily supplied the correct 
>> steel, on time,and on budget.But local city hall folks wanted to save 
>> 50 cents, and went to the lowest bidder. So far, we have saved 
>> nothing, and will be in the hole when all is said and done.Then to 
>> top it all off, the main contractor appears to have no clue as to how 
>> to build a new bridge in the 1st place. ## I had the 12 x 60 inch 
>> long x 1.125 inch diam anchor bolts for my HDX-689 custom made by 
>> portland bolt, they were manufactured in their portland plant,to my 
>> specs, with a 6 inch thread on each end of each rod...and are 103 ksi 
>> yield strength. The various heavy duty nuts, washers, bolts etc, are 
>> also made in theirplant. Including the 18 x 1 inch x 3 inch long 
>> bolts for the legs, with correct length shank. ## when u see dimples 
>> done wrong, excess galvanizing, threads done wrong, dont fight with 
>> it, replace the entire mess. And avoid chinese made brake rotors like 
>> theplague, they come warped right out of the box, or will warp 
>> shortly afterwards. Their calipers are junk as well. Im lucky I 
>> avoided that gong show, and bought reputableaftermarket brands. Those 
>> pal nuts that came with my rohn TB-4 bearings were nothing to right 
>> home about, and neither were the bolts that came with them. The 3 x 
>> boltsthat are mounted transverse, and every 120 degs were more junk. 
>> Mine rusted and seized up asap, sri, not impressed.
>>
>> Jim VE7RF
>>
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