[TowerTalk] Laying out radials around a stone fence

[Kelly Taylor]

Hi Don,

Interesting observation, no doubt accurate given the qualifications of VE6LO, but I wonder to what extent this reconciles with assertions by K9YC, and, I think, N6LF, about radials serving to shield the radiated signal from the lossy earth as much as they serve as a return path for RF current.

I seem to recall some work by K9YC and others on the positive effects of radials that weren’t even connected to antennas that, unlike a quarter-wave monopole, were already complete (such as dipoles both vertical and horizontal), and thus the radials didn’t serve as a return path, but instead helped reflect radiation that would normally be swallowed up by the earth. 

If both observations are correct, perhaps the answer is to lay radials outside the stone wall but not worry about connecting them to radials inside the wall?

73, kelly, ve4xt 


> On May 13, 2018, at 9:58 PM, Don Moman VE6JY <ve6jy.1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> An experienced local MW broadcast engineer and low band ham, VE6LO now SK,
> did some experiments with radials on a 160m vertical he had with a yard
> that also had obstacles.  Using a RF current meter (similar to the MFJ 854
> I expect) he came to the conclusion that if a radial had to be bent to go
> around an obstacle, you might as well not bother - as he found very little
> RF continued past the bend.
> 
> 73 Don
> VE6JY
> 
> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 1:22 AM Joe Giacobello, K2XX via TowerTalk <
> towertalk at contesting.com> wrote:
> 
>> Yea! Verily!
>> 
>>> Stan Stockton <mailto:wa5rtg at gmail.com>
>>> Sunday, May 13, 2018 4:32 PM
>>> I would stake them down at base of wall, go up and over the wall,
>>> stake them down on other side and continue out.
>>> 
>>> Stan, K5GO
>>> 
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>>> Kevin Shea via TowerTalk <mailto:towertalk at contesting.com>
>>> Sunday, May 13, 2018 3:57 PM
>>> Now that the glacier has receded from Wisconsin, I want to put in
>>> radials around my 80' AN Wireless tower (free standing no guy wires).
>>> About 20' out on an arc of about 75 degrees I have an old stone wall.
>>> It's not high but has huge glacial boulders which really can't be
>>> moved. My radials will be about 100' long (some a bit longer some a
>>> bit shorter). They will be buried using a trencher designed to bury
>>> invisible dog fence or lawn sprinkler pipes. I will likely go down ~3"
>>> using 15 gauge solid enamel copper wire (got it an auction of a
>>> transformer mfgr going out of business).
>>> 
>>> My question is: should I run the 20' radials out and end them at the
>>> wall, and the radials at the end edges of the wall (either side of the
>>> 75 degree arc) connect those to a wire (forming a chord - parallel to
>>> the far side of the stone wall) and then connect radials to this cord
>>> and continue those radials out another 80-100'?
>>> 
>>> Hard to explain without a drawing. I would also mention that the
>>> ground falls away from the tower in this direction, probable down 25'
>>> from the base of the tower. This is into a woods and the soil is very
>>> rich and should be a good conductor.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Kevin N9JKP
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