[UK-CONTEST] Club Calls Results

Wed Jan 31 18:58:52 EST 2007

I haven't the intelligence to understand all of this Pete, but one thing 
I am certain of, you appear to display some naivety in the contest world.

Rules can only go so far and cannot cover all eventualities. Contesters 
that succeed not only have skills in operating, but also in interpreting 
the rules.

It took me a few years to understand, but put simply, if it doesn't say 
you can't, then you CAN.

There is also the "British effect" which shows up quite often. That of 
self-imposed rules.

Perhaps the best example I can recall is a telephone call I received 
during my time as chair of HFCC after one of the IOTA contests. The 
caller wished to complain about a GM group who had a big score and 
apparently was operating from a hotel with mains electricity. The 
complainant had self-imposed the NFD rules into his thinking. I have 
found over the years this a typical British approach. Let's try and make 
it as difficult as we can for ourselves.

I recall our own "fracas" when you strongly disagreed with SO2V 
technique. I think your argument was that by holding a Run frequency and 
finding new stations on the 2nd VFO I was breaking some unwritten rule. 
Again, very much self-imposed on your own thinking.

Another example, before Don XTT changed the IOTA rules. At GU8D we had 
occasionally discussed one station on Sark and one on mainland Guernsey, 
both EU114. Perfectly reasonable because it didn't say it wasn't allowed 
in the rules. We actually didn't do it, mainly because we self-imposed 
the rules. Our Adriatic competitors we not so gullible, we suspect. 
Guess who beat us?

Chris G3SJJ

Peter Hobbs wrote:
> Hi Berni,
>
> A long day at the office!  But belatedly - take your example where (let's 
> say) an un-named club has fielded 3 club stations in the past.  As far as I 
> know they just had to apply and pay the licence fee for these to be issued. 
> The temptation is then to activate them in such a way that it's quite 
> difficult for contest entrants further away to work them.  Result - a bonus 
> of 450 points for the home team, with minimal effort or operating expertise 
> being required.
>
> How do I define a scam?  In contest terms, by taking advantage of omissions 
> in the rules to gain advantage in a way that was not foreseen by the contest 
> organisers.  I wouldn't want to dissuade members from turning out to support 
> their club in Club Calls; it's just that if they are given club station 
> calls to activate there's an immediate 6 for 1 advantage, just by paying a 
> fee.  I'm not sure of the current legislation governing the operation of 
> club stations, but it wouldn't surprise me if a club station can choose 
> which particular call it uses from time to time, if it has a range 
> available.  This could make life even easier for a potential scammer.  Even 
> if forbidden by the RSGB general contest rules, it doesn't need to actually 
> enter itself.  To me that's a prima facia case of a rule omission leading to 
> a situation that was not anticipated and certainly not intended.  Tactics if 
> you like, but to me it's a plain old scam, not a lot different from the 
> beach towels that we all know and love to hate.
>
> Of course I'd love to meet you and the guys to discuss it all over a jar, 
> but where is the club?
>
> 73, Peter G3LET
>
>
> From: "Berni G0IDA" <g0ida at yahoo.com>
>
>   
>> Pete,
>>
>>  I don't see it as a scam but as looking at the rules and applying tactics 
>> if that is indeed what clubs do. Since there is clearly no limit for Club 
>> Stations in the rules then every club is open to put on as many or as few 
>> CS as they see fit in my humble opinion.
>>  I also wouldn't see a problem if the rules were changed to say that only 
>> one CS can be used.
>>
>>  Can I ask you why you think it is a scam?
>>
>>  All the best,
>>
>>  Berni
>>  G0IDA
>>
>>  PS We can discus at the club next Wednesday, would be nice to meet you.
>>
>>
>> Peter Hobbs <peter at tilgate.co.uk> wrote:
>>  Hi Berni,
>>
>> Do I gather then that you're quite happy with the hypothetical scam that I
>> anticipated?
>>
>> 73 Peter G3LET
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Berni G0IDA"
>> To:
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 8:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] Club Calls Results
>>
>>
>>     
>>> Pete,
>>>
>>> You'll notice that there is no problem in having more than one Club
>>> Station for this contest as Northampton have been doing this for at least
>>> the last 3 years and I'm sure the adjudicators have noticed them.
>>> Whether you go QRP with those stations is purely a tactical thing, I
>>> would say, as some clubs are out there to win and others just to have a
>>> spot of fun and training.
>>>
>>> 73's
>>>
>>> Berni
>>> G0IDA
>>>
>>> Peter Hobbs
>>>       
>> wrote:
>>     
>>> Thanks to Mike for the very early results for this event, especially
>>> considering the extra manual work obviously required to handle the
>>> reported discrepancies in club names.
>>> I had imagined that each participating club would field *one* club 
>>> station
>>> but looking at the rules, more than one does not appear to be disallowed,
>>> providing that all such stations use calls specifically issued to the
>>> club. I do wonder however whether multiple club station entries were
>>> envisaged by the organisers and whether consideration should be given to
>>> clarifying this point in the rules. One could imagine a hypothetical
>>> situation arising where a club fields a number of QRP club stations in
>>> their area that are only capable of working local stations, including of
>>> course their club members . . .
>>>
>>> 73 Peter G3LET
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> UK-Contest at contesting.com
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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