[VHFcontesting] grid circling bashing, end it
k4gun at comcast.net
k4gun at comcast.net
Fri Dec 5 11:46:25 EST 2008
I'm actually neutral about making logs public. I really don't see that it will change the behavior of the grid circlers. I do think it could address other issues such as outright cheating, but that's a completely separate matter and should not be confused with the issue at hand.
I still think a point is missed. That is that we (or at least I) am not opposed to grid circling. I think its a great way to operate. I can see the appeal and challenge. I see exactly why others do it and admire their accomplishments in terms of score, technical achievement, route planning and coordination. What I don't like is having them compete against traditional rovers. That's why the VUAC gave them their own class in the first place.
There is nothing wrong with Unlimited Rovers. Just like there is nothing wrong with multi-op stations and SOHP stations. Each has its place and competes against similar stations. The discussion here really should be how to keep the Unlimited Rovers competing against themselves and not other roving stations.
Steve
K4GUN/R
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Geiger" <aa5jg at yahoo.com>
To: vhfcontesting at contesting.com, "Nathaniel Lee" <n1bnc at yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 10:10:55 AM GMT -05:00 Columbia
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] grid circling bashing, end it
No kidding. How many people have actually given up roving or contesting because of grid circling? I know going into every contest that I am not going to win, regardless of my category. Should I then quit contesting??? I guess so! Whatever happened to contesting because it is fun, regardless of the outcome?
We get back to what I originally said about open logs-it just gives more people ammunition to go after those who don't contest the way some think they should. I would guess that the grid circlers would work anyone else who called them during a band opening as well as the circling partners, so they did work as many stations as they could.
73s John AA5JG
--- On Fri, 12/5/08, Nathaniel Lee <n1bnc at yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: Nathaniel Lee <n1bnc at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [VHFcontesting] grid circling bashing, end it
> To: vhfcontesting at contesting.com
> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 8:47 AM
> Jeeez, guys, lighten up. Ham radio is a hobby. Unchristian?
> What does that have to do with radio??? Destroying the
> hobby?? There is other life below 6 meters that seems to
> be
> doing well so I suspect not.
>
> 73 all and may your upcoming holidays be happy ones.
>
> Nat Lee
> Somersworth, NH
>
>
>
>
> >
> > > Subject: [VHFcontesting] grid circling bashing
> > > To: vhfcontesting at contesting.com
> > > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 9:31 AM
> > > AH8M wrote
> > >
> > > "° Grid Circling is causing less activity
> and
> > > destroying the hobby - ( it has no effect, it is
> just
> > adding
> > > another type of activity, hence more
> activity)"
> > >
> > > Wrong ____people are giving up roving tatics that
> work
> > > everyone to compete this way or giving up roving
> all
> > > together because they cant compete with grid
> circlers
> > who
> > > now dominate all three catagories even though you
> > acknowlege
> > > its a seperate activity. Dominating all three
> rover
> > > catagories as a bunch of grid circlers despite
> the
> > attempted
> > > comprimise is destructive and against the the
> stated
> > puropse
> > > of the ARRL comprimise/ rule change.
> > > "° Grid Circling community is a bunch of
> dirty
> > > commies like the old Soviets and North
> Koreans"
> > > I never said that, I made an analogy.
> > > "° Grid Circling is unchristian"
> > > Another acknowlegment of sunday school lesson
> that is
> > an
> > > analogy of a fruit tree, so I guess I'm
> saying
> > these
> > > guys are bad trees as well.
> > > "° Grid Circling is not friendly"
> > >
> > > Well let me correct that one as well and it's
> my
> > > opinion. Grid circling is not all inclusive in a
> > contest
> > > whoes spirit is to encourage everyone to work as
> many
> > people
> > > as possible. Perhaps the fall out of them
> entering
> > logs in
> > > all three rover catagories after the ARRL gave
> them
> > their
> > > own catagory causes some unfriendlyness on here.
> > > "° Publishing logs will show grid circling.
> ( no
> > > need, we all know already it's done and they
> are
> > > justifiably pround of it )"
> > >
> > > Many people on here do not get what we are
> talking
> > about.
> > > They say our complaints are baseless, but when we
> say
> > one of
> > > the ways to prove it is to post the logs, they
> duck
> > ffor
> > > cover and say the ARRL has no right to post the
> logs.
> > I
> > > would use a childhood analogy here, but you would
> > think
> > > I'm calling them spoiled little kids or
> something
> > to
> > > that effect.
> > > "° Grid circles are not in harmony with the
> > > ecosystem"
> > >
> > > Another jump here. Not posting logs is not
> harmony.
> > Why
> > > are our dues paying for awards when we cant see
> how
> > the
> > > competitors earned them? Do you pay Joe the
> plumber
> > without
> > > an invoice? I do know we bailout wall street
> without
> > one.
> > > So I suppose I just said the grid circlers are
> bad
> > plumbers
> > > fleecing us on wall street and are not likely to
> give
> > us
> > > much credit.
> > >
> > > Also ecosystems are give and take by everyone in
> the
> > > system, grid circlers just work each other to
> win. Its
> > a
> > > fair compairison.
> > >
> > > This is what I meant on how an open debate gets
> > twisted
> > > when people are uncomfortable.
> > >
> > > Thes guys are well educucated well equiped and
> well
> > > organized.
> > > They stated that they originally started doing
> this
> > > behavior to show the flaws in the contest.
> > > So in doing this they know they are generating a
> > problem.
> > > I don't know if its to win or to get at the
> ARRL.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > Suspicious message? There’s an alert for that.
> > >
> >
> http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad2_122008
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