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Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays

To: n4zr@contesting.com, amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays
From: Jim W7RY <w7ry@inbox.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 15:12:42 -0800
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
I've had antennas do this but not relay boxes. Put a little RF into the antenna 
and it comes alive. A few mins later, low signal. 

It was most likely a TH-6 or TH-7. Or a 2 element Cushcaft 40 meter beam since 
they are the only antennas that I have used over the past 18 years. 

73 
Jim W7RY 



> -----Original Message----- 
> From: n4zr@contesting.com 
> Sent: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 06:07:21 -0400 
> To: amps@contesting.com 
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays 
> 
> I did a survey about 15 years ago on CQ-Contest (then the only reflector 
> available). IIRC, there were essentially no complaints about the 
> Ameritron RCS-8 or the TopTen remote relay box. I used two TopTens for 
> maybe 10 years, often operating into >3:1 SWRs at >1200 watts (for 
> example, running an 80m array cut for CW up in the DX phone window) and 
> never had any relay problems. Currently using an RCS-10, which can have 
> up to 7 relays in the RF path. Will be interesting to see how it holds 
> up. 
> 
> Right now my Array Solutions Stackmatch has a bad relay (dirty?). 
> Symptom is occasional high SWR and a lack of received signal on the 
> lower antenna in my tribander stack. If I send a little high power RF 
> through it things are then fine. 
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR 
> 
> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at 
> www.conteststations.com 
> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
> reversebeacon.blogspot.com, 
> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 
> 
> 
> On 8/7/2010 10:49 AM, Carl wrote: 
>> Most of the antenna switch problems were undersized traces, cheap 
>> connectors 
>> that melted, and VSWR related. Its been almost 20 years since Ive used 
>> any 
>> at power but one does duty switching Beverages 750' away. Maybe they 
>> improved them. 
>> 
>> Carl 
>> KM1H 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jeff Blaine"<keepwalking188@yahoo.com> 
>> To: "Mike"<k4gmh@arrl.net>;<amps@contesting.com> 
>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 1:35 AM 
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Mike, 
>>> 
>>> I would like to have said that using them in my case was due to some 
>>> superhuman research attempt. But I just noticed that these were the 
>>> relays 
>>> in my Ameritron remote antenna switch. And I checked them out - using 
>>> them 
>>> as a sort of benchmark to compare with. Just never found a better 
>>> relay 
>>> and 
>>> ran with them. 
>>> 
>>> There must be a lot of those Ameritron switches out. While the 
>>> manufacturer's reputation has it's issues, I do think generally users 
>>> are 
>>> happy with the switches. This one has been ridden hard at about 1KW 
>>> RTTY 
>>> service and seems to be holding up fine. So far... Fingers crossed. 
>>> 
>>> 73/jeff/ac0c 
>>> www.ac0c.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -------------------------------------------------- 
>>> From: "Mike"<k4gmh@arrl.net> 
>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:32 PM 
>>> To:<amps@contesting.com> 
>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Here the Tyco relays have been used without a failure for over five 
>>>> years 
>>>> in 
>>>> various homemade stack matchers, ant. switchers, etc. while running 
>>>> 1500 
>>>> W 
>>>> in RTTY contests. They are also used at a local M/M station in 
>>>> various 
>>>> HF 
>>>> contest modes for all sort of ant. and amp. selection without a 
>>>> failure. 
>>>> 
>>>> "Rappack Controller Design for Stack Match", National Contest Journal, 
>>>> Jan/Feb 2005 or Wiki, 
>>>> http://wiki.contesting.com/index.php/Category:Remote_antenna_switches, 
>>>> devices are used to make sure the relay control voltage is 
>>>> appropriately 
>>>> applied to keep from hot switching the relays. The single IC 
>>>> controller 
>>>> is 
>>>> based on the quad latch, CD4042. 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Jeff Blaine 
>>>> <keepwalking188@yahoo.com>wrote: 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Carl, you are right. 400.000 W. So if that 12A version is good for 
>>>>> a 
>>>>> US 
>>>>> 1500W, then the 16A version may be marginally acceptable for a guy 
>>>>> running 
>>>>> the AUS 400W. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now that I think of it, 2-3 in parallel may be the way to go if a guy 
>>>>> were 
>>>>> running 400.001 instead of 400.000 W as may happen - for the most 
>>>>> brief 
>>>>> of 
>>>>> instances, of course. :) 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I run the 24V version because the current is half and the power 
>>>>> dissipation 
>>>>> in the wires is a lot less as a result. It's a great relay. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 73/jeff/ac0c 
>>>>> www.ac0c.com 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- 
>>>>> From: "Carl"<km1h@jeremy.mv.com> 
>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 2:20 PM 
>>>>> To: "Jeff Blaine"<keepwalking188@yahoo.com>; "Paul Christensen" 
>>>>> <w9ac@arrl.net>;<amps@contesting.com> 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I thought the Emtron DX3 and 4 were the Aussie national amp(-; 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Carl 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Carl, 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That relay is available in a 24V version. And there's a 16A 
>>>>>>> contacts 
>>>>>>> rating option as well which may be the better choice especially if 
>>>>>>> a 
>>>>>>> guy 
>>>>>>> is running at the full AUS/NZ-400w power level instead of the 
>>>>>>> domestic 
>>>>>>> 1500w power level. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 73/jeff/ac0c 
>>>>>>> www.ac0c.com 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- 
>>>>>>> From: "Carl"<km1h@jeremy.mv.com> 
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:33 AM 
>>>>>>> To: "Paul Christensen"<w9ac@arrl.net>;<amps@contesting.com> 
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I'll have to give those a try, I want to experiment with some 6M 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> antenna 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> phasing. The 12V coil may be a problem in a very long run, 
>>>>>>>> probably 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> have 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> to 
>>>>>>>> dial back a 24V PS. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Carl 
>>>>>>>> KM1H 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>> From: "Paul Christensen"<w9ac@arrl.net> 
>>>>>>>> To:<amps@contesting.com> 
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 5:37 PM 
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Although not strictly an "automotive" relay, W8ZR has conducted 
>>>>>>>>> extensive 
>>>>>>>>> tests on the Tyco/Shrack RTB14012, available for USD $1.80 ea. 
>>>>>>>>> from 
>>>>>>>>> Mouser 
>>>>>>>>> Electronics: 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=RTB14012 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Jim is using these relays for high-power 1.5KW+ switching in his 
>>>>>>>>> new 
>>>>>>>>> StationPro controller. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://www.w8zr.net/stationpro/index.htm 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> He's seeing some very low loss and VSWR numbers up through 6m, 
>>>>>>>>> with 
>>>>>>>>> decent 
>>>>>>>>> performance through 2m. Not bad for a $1.80 PCB sealed power 
>>>>>>>>> relay. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> I 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> believe Jim has tested another similar relay with even lower loss 
>>>>>>>>> in 
>>>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>>> same price class. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Paul, W9AC 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Dave Hachadorian"<k6ll@arrl.net> 
>>>>>>>>>> To:<amps@contesting.com> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:54 PM 
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Below is some info from W2VJN on inexpensive relays for RF. 
>>>>>>>>>>> They 
>>>>>>>>>>> are available for $2.43 each here: 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/747811-relay-pwr-spdt-10a-12vdc-pc-mnt-jw1fsn-dc12v.html
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL 
>>>>>>>>>>> Big Bear Lake, CA 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The relays which we use in the Top Ten Devices boxes are 10 
>>>>>>>>>>>> amp, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> sealed power relays. They are very small and have very low 
>>>>>>>>>>>> inductance. The contacts are connected to the base pins with 
>>>>>>>>>>>> wide conductors. I have run many power tests on these relays 
>>>>>>>>>>>> and the pc boards they are mounted on with temperature 
>>>>>>>>>>>> monitors 
>>>>>>>>>>>> and they will take full amateur power (+) to over 30 MHz. We 
>>>>>>>>>>>> rate our boxes conservatively at 1.5 KW. The part number is 
>>>>>>>>>>>> JW1FSN-DC12V. They come with several different brand names on 
>>>>>>>>>>>> them. Similar relays are being used by other manufactures of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> amateur boxes and they rate them variously at 3 KW and 5 KW. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> George, W2VJN 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>>>>> Amps mailing list 
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>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ 
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ 
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>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________ 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> 73, 
>>>> Mike, K4GMH 
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