Hi OM
All those issues or recommandations of Bill(W6WRT) you could find them also
on the TRIODE board of G3SEK.
Also all the documentation and schematics for this purpose is also available
on the internet(freeware to download)
All those security wiring around measuring currents of a grounded grid are
well explained and documentated by G3SEK his triode board.
Take a look on his wiring diagrams of a full equipped power supply for a
amplifier.
Greetings Jean ON4AEF.
----- Original Message -----
From: <amps-request@contesting.com>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 12:43 PM
Subject: Amps Digest, Vol 93, Issue 11
> Send Amps mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: GS35B questions (Bill, W6WRT)
> 2. Re: GS35B questions (Bill, W6WRT)
> 3. Re: GS35B questions (Han Higasa)
> 4. Re: GS35B questions (Han Higasa)
> 5. Re: GS35B questions (Jim W7RY)
> 6. GI7B Input resistance (Andre Goldschagg)
> 7. Re: GS35B questions (Marius Hauki)
> 8. Re: GS35B questions (TexasRF@aol.com)
> 9. Re: GS35B questions (Marius Hauki)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:26:32 -0700
> From: "Bill, W6WRT" <dezrat1242@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] GS35B questions
> To: amps@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <m90j86pcpmeugn8quofjteuqvlsivoomg7@4ax.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
>
> On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 00:03:26 +0200, Marius Hauki
> <rezycle.bin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The minus lead should be isolated from the
>>chassis since I plan on using a high wattage drop resistor from
>>chassis ground to B- to be able to measure grid current.
>>
>>-Should I place the grid drop resistor in the PSU cabinet or in the PA
>>deck? I was thinking that placing it in the PA deck would be safer
>>because in case only B+ is connected before B-, the grid drop resistor
>>would connect B- to chassis ground and not keep the PA deck at B+
>>potential (No I am not going to hot plug the B+ connector, but perhaps
>>some other operator will attempt just that. You never know what can
>>happen in the mid of a contest battle)
>
> REPLY:
>
> You are correct to leave the B- lead isolated from chassis, but you
> don't need the high wattage resistor you mentioned. Instead, you
> should connect a pair of diodes back-to-back from the B- lead to
> chassis ground inside the PS chassis and another pair across the grid
> meter inside the amp chassis as described below.
>
> Use high surge current rated diodes such as the 6A10 or equivalent.
> With the diodes present, you do not need the high wattage resistor you
> mentioned above. For GS-35b I would use a 500 mA meter. You should
> protect the meter with a low value resistor in series with the meter.
> The value of the resistor should be chosen so the diodes begin to
> conduct when the drop across the meter + resistor equals about .7
> volts. This combination of series resistor and the back-to-back
> diodes mentioned above will protect the grid meter against even
> massive arcs. The negative side of the grid current meter is connected
> to ground and the positive side is connected to the positive side of
> the cathode current meter, below.
>
> The cathode current meter is placed in the B- lead and should also
> have a series resistor on it's negative side and protective diodes
> back-to-back across the combination of meter and series resistor. The
> value of the series resistor is chosen by the same means as above for
> the grid current meter.
>
> If any of this is not clear, please ask questions. Good luck and keep
> us posted on your project.
>
> Bill, W6WRT
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:37:35 -0700
> From: "Bill, W6WRT" <dezrat1242@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] GS35B questions
> To: amps@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <bb2j86dnnerbgdrhtn25qsqn0qots6g6k7@4ax.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
>
> On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 00:03:26 +0200, Marius Hauki
> <rezycle.bin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>-I have read that running DC instead of AC on the filament is OK.
>>However I have read somewhere else that it is not OK. I have an AC
>>trafo, but if the primary voltage varies, the filament voltage could
>>be too high or too low and this may hurt the tube. Instead I would run
>>a regulated DC supply, since the filament current is not that high.
>>Any comments on that? Alternatively, any clever way of regulating the
>>trafo by a small series drop resistor or something?
>
> REPLY:
>
> I would use AC power on the heater. Install a pair of banana jacks on
> the front panel and run them to the filament connections right at the
> tube base. Place some small RF chokes (1-2.5 mHy) in the leads and
> bypass the banana jacks to ground with a .01 uF cap at each jack. Then
> use a small variac to set the filament voltage exactly. Used variacs
> in the 100-200 watt range are cheap and readily available on eBay. You
> could mount the variac either in the amp itself or in an external
> enclosure.
>
> I don't like regulate heater supplies unless you provide some kind of
> step start protection or current limiting. With a regulated supply,
> the initial inrush current can be quite high. With a transformer,
> there is some current limiting due to the internal resistance of the
> transformer. Even so, if you are really fussy, you might want to use
> step start there, too. I don't and have never had any trouble.
>
> Bill, W6WRT
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:04:47 +0900
> From: "Han Higasa" <higasa@plum.ocn.ne.jp>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] GS35B questions
> To: "Marius Hauki" <rezycle.bin@gmail.com>, <amps@contesting.com>
> Message-ID: <01bf01cb508c$8b95e090$030ba8c0@yukikaze070505>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> Hi gents
>
> Regarding HV connection I am using RG-8U and
> HN connectors for HV+.
> HV- is connected by a multi-pin metal remote
> control connector with its wire harness including
> AC 100V, DC 12V, grounds, "HV start" and "HV
> ready" signals, and HV- line.
> "HV start" signal control a primary power relay.
>
> It consists an inherent inter-lock function
> - without control connection HVPS never ON.
> And use the order to connect HV+ first on
> operation, disconnect HV+ last on any
> maintenance kept a safety for a couple of decades.
>
> The RF deck acts as a master, and the HVPS a slave.
> A possibility that HVPS works arbitrarily will
> introduce an accident.
>
> The ground side of the HN connectors work as
> a connection of frame ground, but I recommend
> to use an explicit frame ground line to keep
> further safety.
>
> GL, de Han JE1BMJ
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:20:53 +0900
> From: "Han Higasa" <higasa@plum.ocn.ne.jp>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] GS35B questions
> To: <amps@contesting.com>
> Message-ID: <022501cb5097$2cd52100$030ba8c0@yukikaze070505>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> Hi again,
>
> Regarding a grid drop resistor
> I am using two resistors;
>
> A: a 500 ohm 10 W from HV- to GND in HVPS.
> B: a 500 ohm 10 W from HV- to GND in RF deck.
> C: a 3A Si-diode is also connected between HV-
> and GND in parallel with resistor B;
> anode is grounded, cathode is connected to HV-.
>
> I am using a 0.2 ohm shunt resistor for IP meter,
> and a 2 ohm for IG meter between these 500 ohm
> resistor/diode and the bias diode/cathode of the
> tube in the RF deck; these 500 ohm resistors
> practically provide no or little error on the meters.
>
> de Han JE1BMJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marius Hauki" <rezycle.bin@gmail.com>
> To: <amps@contesting.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 7:03 AM
> Subject: [Amps] GS35B questions
>
>
> Hi, I am working on a new GS35B HF amp design.
>
> Some questions:
>
> -I would like to buy some sockets instead of machining them myself.
> Could you gentlemen direct me to a person selling sockets that
> normally have them in stock or at least can deliver within a month or
> so?
>
> -What is the proper "burn in" procedure for the GS35B? I was planning
> on running the filament of the tube for some time (how long time?)
> with proper airflow. Do I need to apply HV as well? I don't have a HV
> tester at the moment. I bought the tubes from UR4RLL. They look new /
> unused.
>
> -I am planning to use the triode control board from WD7S. Any things
> that I should be specially aware of when using that board with the
> GS35B (apart from the mod for higher bias voltage)?
>
> -I am planning 3650V on the anode. This is significantly higher than
> the "official" data sheets state, however I notice that the official
> data sheets rate the tube for military service with less cooling. Does
> 3650V look like an OK voltage?
>
> -I am looking for a SAFE way of running the HV cable from an external
> HV PSU cabinet to the RF cabinet. I know this has been discussed
> numerous times before, but again: what is the best cable I can use and
> what connector should I use? Did we reach a conclusion and some
> reccomendation on that question? I would like to avoid any possibility
> at all for the B+ (hv plus)connector connecting before the B- (hv
> minus) because that may place the RF deck at the HV+ potential if the
> grounding between the two boxes are broken. (I do not plan on hot
> plugging, of course). The minus lead should be isolated from the
> chassis since I plan on using a high wattage drop resistor from
> chassis ground to B- to be able to measure grid current.
>
> -Should I place the grid drop resistor in the PSU cabinet or in the PA
> deck? I was thinking that placing it in the PA deck would be safer
> because in case only B+ is connected before B-, the grid drop resistor
> would connect B- to chassis ground and not keep the PA deck at B+
> potential (No I am not going to hot plug the B+ connector, but perhaps
> some other operator will attempt just that. You never know what can
> happen in the mid of a contest battle)
>
> -I have read that running DC instead of AC on the filament is OK.
> However I have read somewhere else that it is not OK. I have an AC
> trafo, but if the primary voltage varies, the filament voltage could
> be too high or too low and this may hurt the tube. Instead I would run
> a regulated DC supply, since the filament current is not that high.
> Any comments on that? Alternatively, any clever way of regulating the
> trafo by a small series drop resistor or something?
>
> 73
> LB3HC
> Marius
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 19:38:00 -0800
> From: Jim W7RY <w7ry@inbox.com>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] GS35B questions
> To: Han Higasa <higasa@plum.ocn.ne.jp>, amps@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <E6DA57A30A8.0000007Bw7ry@inbox.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Great idea....
>
> I too am using 2 resistors for the HV return in my 8877 project. I wanted
> to have a resistor in the power supply as well as in the RF deck. I used a
> 2K in the power supply and a 2k in the amplifier chassis. The metering
> circuit takes the ground resistance down to a few ohms in the RF deck.
> I'm using the WD7S triode board setup and analog Simpson meters.
>
> 73
> Jim W7RY
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: higasa@plum.ocn.ne.jp
>> Sent: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:20:53 +0900
>> To: amps@contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] GS35B questions
>>
>> Hi again,
>>
>> Regarding a grid drop resistor
>> I am using two resistors;
>>
>> A: a 500 ohm 10 W from HV- to GND in HVPS.
>> B: a 500 ohm 10 W from HV- to GND in RF deck.
>> C: a 3A Si-diode is also connected between HV-
>> and GND in parallel with resistor B;
>> anode is grounded, cathode is connected to HV-.
>>
>> I am using a 0.2 ohm shunt resistor for IP meter,
>> and a 2 ohm for IG meter between these 500 ohm
>> resistor/diode and the bias diode/cathode of the
>> tube in the RF deck; these 500 ohm resistors
>> practically provide no or little error on the meters.
>>
>> de Han JE1BMJ
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marius Hauki" <rezycle.bin@gmail.com>
>> To: <amps@contesting.com>
>> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 7:03 AM
>> Subject: [Amps] GS35B questions
>>
>>
>> Hi, I am working on a new GS35B HF amp design.
>>
>> Some questions:
>>
>> -I would like to buy some sockets instead of machining them myself.
>> Could you gentlemen direct me to a person selling sockets that
>> normally have them in stock or at least can deliver within a month or
>> so?
>>
>> -What is the proper "burn in" procedure for the GS35B? I was planning
>> on running the filament of the tube for some time (how long time?)
>> with proper airflow. Do I need to apply HV as well? I don't have a HV
>> tester at the moment. I bought the tubes from UR4RLL. They look new /
>> unused.
>>
>> -I am planning to use the triode control board from WD7S. Any things
>> that I should be specially aware of when using that board with the
>> GS35B (apart from the mod for higher bias voltage)?
>>
>> -I am planning 3650V on the anode. This is significantly higher than
>> the "official" data sheets state, however I notice that the official
>> data sheets rate the tube for military service with less cooling. Does
>> 3650V look like an OK voltage?
>>
>> -I am looking for a SAFE way of running the HV cable from an external
>> HV PSU cabinet to the RF cabinet. I know this has been discussed
>> numerous times before, but again: what is the best cable I can use and
>> what connector should I use? Did we reach a conclusion and some
>> reccomendation on that question? I would like to avoid any possibility
>> at all for the B+ (hv plus)connector connecting before the B- (hv
>> minus) because that may place the RF deck at the HV+ potential if the
>> grounding between the two boxes are broken. (I do not plan on hot
>> plugging, of course). The minus lead should be isolated from the
>> chassis since I plan on using a high wattage drop resistor from
>> chassis ground to B- to be able to measure grid current.
>>
>> -Should I place the grid drop resistor in the PSU cabinet or in the PA
>> deck? I was thinking that placing it in the PA deck would be safer
>> because in case only B+ is connected before B-, the grid drop resistor
>> would connect B- to chassis ground and not keep the PA deck at B+
>> potential (No I am not going to hot plug the B+ connector, but perhaps
>> some other operator will attempt just that. You never know what can
>> happen in the mid of a contest battle)
>>
>> -I have read that running DC instead of AC on the filament is OK.
>> However I have read somewhere else that it is not OK. I have an AC
>> trafo, but if the primary voltage varies, the filament voltage could
>> be too high or too low and this may hurt the tube. Instead I would run
>> a regulated DC supply, since the filament current is not that high.
>> Any comments on that? Alternatively, any clever way of regulating the
>> trafo by a small series drop resistor or something?
>>
>> 73
>> LB3HC
>> Marius
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 09:07:48 +0200
> From: Andre Goldschagg <totiranger@gmail.com>
> Subject: [Amps] GI7B Input resistance
> To: Amps@contesting.com
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTimLvx0OCz9YUL6d4v23BVcUN4nZxwxW1k3gOUBe@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone confirm the load resistance for a pair of these used on HF?
>
> Regards
> Andre
> C91UA
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:32:17 +0200
> From: Marius Hauki <rezycle.bin@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] GS35B questions
> To: amps@contesting.com
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTinx0i4Cn7pT3v4=Qhwh=U1cGyHZ6dkRUJ5DgN9g@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> OK, thanks. Will consider a interlock between the racks as well as a
> separate ground strip between the racks. Will probably have to isolate
> the Bminus and therefore the casing of the HV connector (if circular
> connector used), since I will run grounded grid and need a measurement
> resistor for grid current to chassis ground from Bminus.
>
> 73
> LB3HC
> Marius
>
> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 4:04 AM, Han Higasa <higasa@plum.ocn.ne.jp> wrote:
>> Hi gents
>>
>> Regarding HV connection I am using RG-8U ?and
>> HN connectors for HV+.
>> HV- is connected by a multi-pin metal remote
>> control connector with its wire harness including
>> AC 100V, DC 12V, grounds, "HV start" and "HV
>> ready" signals, and HV- line.
>> "HV start" signal control a primary power relay.
>>
>> It consists an inherent inter-lock function
>> - without control connection HVPS never ON.
>> And use the order to connect HV+ first on
>> operation, disconnect HV+ last on any
>> maintenance kept a safety for a couple of decades.
>>
>> The RF deck acts as a master, and the HVPS a slave.
>> A possibility that HVPS works arbitrarily will
>> introduce an accident.
>>
>> The ground side of the HN connectors work as
>> a connection of frame ground, but I recommend
>> to use an explicit frame ground line to keep
>> further safety.
>>
>> GL, de Han JE1BMJ
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 06:38:36 EDT
> From: TexasRF@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Amps] GS35B questions
> To: rezycle.bin@gmail.com, amps@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <5e4c.5098a8c5.39bb64ac@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Or, use two connectors, one for B plus and another for B minus.
>
> 73 de K5GW
>
>
>
> In a message dated 9/10/2010 5:32:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> rezycle.bin@gmail.com writes:
>
> OK, thanks. Will consider a interlock between the racks as well as a
> separate ground strip between the racks. Will probably have to isolate
> the Bminus and therefore the casing of the HV connector (if circular
> connector used), since I will run grounded grid and need a measurement
> resistor for grid current to chassis ground from Bminus.
>
> 73
> LB3HC
> Marius
>
> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 4:04 AM, Han Higasa <higasa@plum.ocn.ne.jp>
> wrote:
>> Hi gents
>>
>> Regarding HV connection I am using RG-8U and
>> HN connectors for HV+.
>> HV- is connected by a multi-pin metal remote
>> control connector with its wire harness including
>> AC 100V, DC 12V, grounds, "HV start" and "HV
>> ready" signals, and HV- line.
>> "HV start" signal control a primary power relay.
>>
>> It consists an inherent inter-lock function
>> - without control connection HVPS never ON.
>> And use the order to connect HV+ first on
>> operation, disconnect HV+ last on any
>> maintenance kept a safety for a couple of decades.
>>
>> The RF deck acts as a master, and the HVPS a slave.
>> A possibility that HVPS works arbitrarily will
>> introduce an accident.
>>
>> The ground side of the HN connectors work as
>> a connection of frame ground, but I recommend
>> to use an explicit frame ground line to keep
>> further safety.
>>
>> GL, de Han JE1BMJ
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:42:58 +0200
> From: Marius Hauki <rezycle.bin@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] GS35B questions
> To: amps@contesting.com
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTikxkHm2Nq3EvAQe+KPR8s+BE9Ajr44DAtChY3=M@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> SHV connectors look like a good candidate. This reference
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHV_connector describes what I am looking
> for: center pin is engaged after the casing is engaged. Center pin is
> disengaged before the casing on removal. This prevents the whole rf
> deck to reach Bpluss potential.
>
> However on your linear, it looks like the ground (casing on the SHV
> connector) is not isolated from chassis ground. On a grounded grid
> amp, if one want to measure grud current, I guess one needs an
> isolated Bminus lead? Alternatively, running Bminus in a separate lead
> can be done as described (however I dont think I want to do that on my
> amp). How have you solved grid current metering in your case? I know
> metering the grid to chassis circuit can work, but that will not give
> a low reactance RF circuit from grid to chassis and may cause
> instability.
>
> 73
> Marius
> LB3HC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 3:11 AM, Jim W7RY <w7ry@inbox.com> wrote:
>> I use SHV connectors. ?They can be found on Ebay.
>>
>> See a picture of them in use on my 8877 amplifier and power supply at:
>>
>> http://s900.photobucket.com/albums/ac206/w7ry/8877%20Amplifier/
>>
>> 73
>> Jim W7RY
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rezycle.bin@gmail.com
>>> Sent: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 00:03:26 +0200
>>> To: amps@contesting.com
>>> Subject: [Amps] GS35B questions
>>>
>>> Hi, I am working on a new GS35B HF amp design.
>>>
>>> Some questions:
>>>
>>> -I would like to buy some sockets instead of machining them myself.
>>> Could you gentlemen direct me to a person selling sockets that
>>> normally have them in stock or at least can deliver within a month or
>>> so?
>>>
>>> -What is the proper "burn in" procedure for the GS35B? I was planning
>>> on running the filament of the tube for some time (how long time?)
>>> with proper airflow. Do I need to apply HV as well? I don't have a HV
>>> tester at the moment. I bought the tubes from UR4RLL. They look new /
>>> unused.
>>>
>>> -I am planning to use the triode control board from WD7S. Any things
>>> that I should be specially aware of when using that board with the
>>> GS35B (apart from the mod for higher bias voltage)?
>>>
>>> -I am planning 3650V on the anode. This is significantly higher than
>>> the "official" data sheets state, however I notice that the official
>>> data sheets rate the tube for military service with less cooling. Does
>>> 3650V look like an OK voltage?
>>>
>>> -I am looking for a SAFE way of running the HV cable from an external
>>> HV PSU cabinet to the RF cabinet.? I know this has been discussed
>>> numerous times before, but again: what is the best cable I can use and
>>> what connector should I use? Did we reach a conclusion and some
>>> reccomendation on that question? I would like to avoid any possibility
>>> at all for the B+ (hv plus)connector connecting before the B- (hv
>>> minus) because that may place the RF deck at the HV+ potential if the
>>> grounding between the two boxes are broken. (I do not plan on hot
>>> plugging, of course). The minus lead should be isolated from the
>>> chassis since I plan on using a high wattage drop resistor from
>>> chassis ground to B- to be able to measure grid current.
>>>
>>> -Should I place the grid drop resistor in the PSU cabinet or in the PA
>>> deck? I was thinking that placing it in the PA deck would be safer
>>> because in case only B+ is connected before B-, the grid drop resistor
>>> would connect B- to chassis ground and not keep the PA deck at B+
>>> potential (No I am not going to hot plug the B+ connector, but perhaps
>>> some other operator will attempt just that. You never know what can
>>> happen in the mid of a contest battle)
>>>
>>> -I have read that running DC instead of AC on the filament is OK.
>>> However I have read somewhere else that it is not OK. I have an AC
>>> trafo, but if the primary voltage varies, the filament voltage could
>>> be too high or too low and this may hurt the tube. Instead I would run
>>> a regulated DC supply, since the filament current is not that high.
>>> Any comments on that? Alternatively, any clever way of regulating the
>>> trafo by a small series drop resistor or something?
>>>
>>> 73
>>> LB3HC
>>> Marius
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amps mailing list
>>> Amps@contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>> [http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps]
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
> End of Amps Digest, Vol 93, Issue 11
> ************************************
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