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Re: [CQ-Contest] Little old ladies changing tires

To: "'Robert Naumann'" <w5ov@w5ov.com>, <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Little old ladies changing tires
From: "Paul J. Piercey" <p.piercey@nl.rogers.com>
Reply-to: vo1he@rac.ca
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 17:53:08 -0000
List-post: <mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
Yep, now we're on the same page.

And, by all means (well, not ALL but you know what I mean), work me if you
can. :)


73 -- Paul VO1HE  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com 
> [mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Robert Naumann
> Sent: December 2, 2006 13:56
> To: cq-contest@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Little old ladies changing tires
> 
> While I have a great desire to extinguish silly threads here 
> on CQ-Contest, I must comment in dissention with this alleged 
> "real world logic".
> 
> The issue here is not receiving some information and doing 
> something with it; it is *how* you came to receive the 
> information. Did you solicit it from others in any way? Did 
> you pre-arrange for someone to provide you with additional 
> information? If you answer no to these two questions, your 
> operation is not assisted.
> 
> Anything available to you on the air, *** without you 
> soliciting it from others in a pre-arranged or planned 
> way***, should be fair game. The obvious preclusions to this 
> are already in the rules specifying connecting to spotting 
> networks etc.
> 
> Just like you can tune to 10MHz and listen to WWV as a single 
> op to get an idea of propagation and not be assisted, hearing 
> something randomly mentioned by someone else on the air 
> during the contest should be considered equivalent to WWV and 
> not be considered any sort of assistance - in this context - 
> of being at risk of reclassifying your operation as assisted.
> 
> Perhaps the wording of all contest rules needs to clearly 
> indicate that the assisted activity must be planned, 
> pre-arranged, thought out in advance, coordinated with 
> others, or something else meaning the same thing to remove 
> all possibility of classifying truly randomly gained 
> information as an assistance to your operation. Perhaps the 
> category needs to be changed to something like: Single OP 
> with Planned Assistance.
> 
> The slippery slope comes in where you link the definition of 
> assisted to what you do after the information is gained from 
> the proper place of what you did **PRIOR** to getting the 
> information. The distinction must be focused on your intent - 
> not your reaction. 
> 
> The example of announcing that you need VO1 is a great 
> example that is probably worthy of further discussion and 
> debate. What is your intent here?
> Have you planned with anyone else to locate a VO1? No. What 
> if a VO1 calls you based on one of these "directional" CQs? 
> Would this be OK? I am inclined to allow this as *NOT* being 
> assisted since it is an activity you have undertaken on your 
> own, on the air, real-time, during the contest, and you have 
> not pre-arranged for it. Calling a directional CQ during a 
> contest should not be precluded for unassisted single ops.
> 
> Let's say you do need VO1, and you don't say anything about 
> it. Then someone works you during the last 5 minutes of the 
> contest and randomly mentions that VO1 is up 5 in case you 
> need it - isn't this clearly different as there is no intent 
> or plan to extract or seek that information from anyone else?
> 
> Again, if someone tells you that the VO1 is up 5, what do you 
> do? Ignore the
> VO1 because you now know about it through no action of your 
> own? Why not? I see nothing wrong with this or unethical in 
> any way. Why penalize your own score for something you had 
> nothing to do with and didn't ask for?
> 
> This is so binary to me I am struggling with how it is not 
> commonly understood.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Bob W5OV
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tree [mailto:tree@kkn.net]
> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 2:15 PM
> To: cq-contest@contesting.com
> Subject: [CQ-Contest] Little old ladies changing tires
> 
> 
> K4BEV writes:
> 
> > A little old lady has a flat tire...
> > She changes the tire herself = Unassisted
> > She calls AAA and they come out and change the tire = Assisted
> > A Good Samaritan stops and changes the tire for her = Unassisted?
> >  
> > Using the above logic she must have been unassisted since 
> she didn't ask
> for 
> > help, even though she accepted it.
> > Using *real world logic*, if you accept assistance you are 
> no longer  
> > unassisted. 
> 
> It's this kind of common sense logic that often extinguishes 
> some of the
> more silly threads on CQ-CONTEST.  
> 
> Of course, you could talk about the tow truck driver who 
> didn't see the 
> old lady - and someone slows down and rolls down the window saying: 
> "There is an old lady back a mile who needs a tire changed".  
> 
> If the information is acted on - the guy doesn't get to claim he found
> her by himself.
> 
> So - that's the key.  Did you QSY and work the station based on that 
> information?  
> 
> This is why even positioning yourself to get the information 
> by telling 
> the world you are looking for VO1 isn't a good idea.  Once 
> someone tells
> you about a station - it makes it hard to go work them even 
> if you do find
> them on your own.  
> 
> Just work the contest - maybe you will miss a mult.  I did in 
> the SSCW.  
> Life goes on.
> 
> Tree N6TR
> "Crabby 40 meter HC8N Operator" (hence to be reduced to C4MHO).
> 
> PS: What about sending VV for "33" - anyone have a problem with that?
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