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Re: [TenTec] notch filter for Eagle?

To: "'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'" <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] notch filter for Eagle?
From: "rick@dj0ip.de" <Rick@DJ0IP.de>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 16:12:09 +0200
List-post: <mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
I don't recall saying anything about "Eagle".

I was using an $800 SDR QRP transceiver.
YES, the S-Meter dropped.  All traces of the disturbing signal completely 
vanished.

In CW I only need the notch about once in a million years when using a radio 
with good filters, so an auto notch with that performance is certainly more 
than good enough.

73
Rick, DJ0IP


-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary F
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 4:06 PM
To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
Subject: Re: [TenTec] notch filter for Eagle?

Rick, are you telling me that the S meter needle dropped when you needled the 
notch filter? None of the Eagles I have had produced at result.

Gary

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 21, 2017, at 1:33 AM, rick@dj0ip.de <Rick@DJ0IP.de> wrote:
> 
> I was operating 40m SSB recently and had a disturbing dual-tone carrier come 
> up on my frequency.  The two tones were about 800 Hz and 600 Hz, +/-, and a 
> good S9.   
> 
> I pushed the notch button on my SDR transceiver and both tones instantly and 
> completely disappeared, enabling perfect copy of the SSB station.  I was so 
> surprised, I thought the two-tone signal had coincidentally ceased. I turned 
> the notch off and both tones were back at S9.  Notch on again: both tones 
> completely gone.
> 
> I find this to be a dramatic improvement over the old fashion manual notch 
> filter which could only remove one tone.
> 
> 73
> Rick, DJ0IP
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
> Bernie Skoch via TenTec
> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 3:07 AM
> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> Cc: Bernie Skoch; Rick Cochran; n4py3@earthlink.net
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] notch filter for Eagle?
> 
> It's a very nice feature if you are bring QRMd by a nearby carrier.  With a 
> good working one you can notch the carrier out and not have to listen to it.
> 
>> On Jul 20, 2017, at 20:51, Rick Cochran via TenTec <tentec@contesting.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Well, use almost all CW on my OMNI VII.  I am not sure what the notch filter 
>> is.  Never used it.
>> 
>> I have a couple of Yaesu rigs and have no idea how to use notch.
>> 
>> Doesn't sound like a critical feature to me.
>> 
>> 73s,
>> 
>> WO8L
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 20, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Carl Moreschi <n4py3@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I find the hardware noise blanker on my Orion works very well.  It's on a 
>>> par with the Flex 6500 noise blanker system.
>>> 
>>> Carl Moreschi N4PY
>>> 58 Hogwood Rd
>>> Louisburg, NC 27549
>>> www.n4py.com
>>> 
>>>> On 7/20/2017 8:18 PM, David W LeJeune, Sr wrote:
>>>> Thanks, Rick.  I'd heard that Rob had a hand in it's improvement.  Had a 
>>>> friend who had one of the original Orion's and the noise blanker was 
>>>> almost worthless.  On my Orion II, the auto notch still causes distortion 
>>>> of the audio signal when in use.  Not sure if this is common.  Still use 
>>>> the Orion II on 80meter SSB and a lot on CW on all bands.  But the Flex 
>>>> 6500 is a lot better than my old Flex 5000 on CW.
>>>> 
>>>> Dave WN5V
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
>>>> rick@dj0ip.de
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 4:55 PM
>>>> To: 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] notch filter for Eagle?
>>>> 
>>>> Dave,
>>>> 
>>>> That is only because Rob Sherwood worked long and hard on Ten-Tec and FLEX 
>>>> to fix their problems.  When they originally shipped, neither were any 
>>>> good at blanking electric fences.
>>>> We all owe Rob a huge amount of gratitude for the many years of service he 
>>>> has given us.
>>>> 
>>>> 73
>>>> Rick, DJ0IP
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
>>>> David W LeJeune, Sr
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 9:48 PM
>>>> To: 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] notch filter for Eagle?
>>>> 
>>>> I have an electrical fence next door.  Both the noise blanker in my Orion 
>>>> II and the one in my Flex 6500 easily take out that type of noise as well 
>>>> as ignition noise.  The Orion has a manual notch filter (sort of).  It's 
>>>> really a fixed freq notch at either 300 hz or 1050 hz.  You can use that 
>>>> with CW and the RIT - move the interfering hetrodyne inside of the 
>>>> selected notch. Of course, you have to accept the change in the pitch of 
>>>> the CW signal.
>>>> 
>>>> Dave WN5V
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
>>>> rick@dj0ip.de
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 9:36 AM
>>>> To: 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] notch filter for Eagle?
>>>> 
>>>> Gary,
>>>> 
>>>> Your Pro 2 of course is ancient history now.  Was a great radio in its day.
>>>> Manual notch filters are fine on CW because "we" use our brain to notch 
>>>> the disturbance and not the desired frequency.  The auto-notch can't tell 
>>>> the difference.
>>>> 
>>>> Regardless of what it can and can't do, if it dies, you probably won't 
>>>> even get spare parts for it.  And brand new radios are no longer coming 
>>>> with manual notch filters (except for the old stock sitting on shelves and 
>>>> being offered at dumping prices to get rid of it).
>>>> 
>>>> If my memory serves me right, that was still one of the radios with a 
>>>> useful noise blanker for blanking out electrical fences.  None of the new 
>>>> DSP noise blankers can do that as well as the old noise blankers.
>>>> 
>>>> There certainly were advantages in the older radios but we will probably 
>>>> only see one more new radio come out in Japan with that old 
>>>> technology...at the end of this year.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't know if Mike will bring out an Eagle or Omni VII again.  The eagle 
>>>> has a good noise blanker, the OM7 has a DSP blanker, but it has been 
>>>> improved in firmware for use near electrical fences; still not as good as 
>>>> older technology though.
>>>> 
>>>> Ones step forward, two steps back! (hi)
>>>> 
>>>> 73
>>>> Rick
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
>>>> Dukes HiFi
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 4:03 PM
>>>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>>>> Cc: Bernie Skoch
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] notch filter for Eagle?
>>>> 
>>>> In side-by-side comparison, an Icon IC-756 Pro2 notch filter versus an 
>>>> Orion/Eagle type notch filter, using my Pro 2 manual notch filter (which 
>>>> also works in CW, and is inside the AGC loop), I can hear weak but desired 
>>>> signals far more easily with the otherwise inferior Pro 2 than I can with 
>>>> the otherwise superior Orion/Eagle. This is especially true when the 
>>>> offending carrier is keyed, since the Pro 2 receiver is not constantly 
>>>> adjusting gain to compensate for the keyed offending carrier.
>>>> 
>>>> One can SORT of obtain similar results by turning off the AGC in the 
>>>> Orion/Eagle when using the notch filter as long as you don’t need any AGC 
>>>> action.
>>>> 
>>>> Gary
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 20, 2017, at 8:34 AM, Bernie Skoch via 
>>>>> TenTec<tentec@contesting.com>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rick,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I do not believe I am "out in right field."
>>>>> 
>>>>> Someone commented that all Ten Tec notch filters are useless.  I 
>>>>> disagreed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 73,
>>>>> Bernie
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2017, at 02:30, rick@dj0ip.de<Rick@DJ0IP.de>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You guys are all out in right field.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No radio's auto notch filter works in CW mode.
>>>>>> They cannot distinguish between the useful tone and the disturbing tone.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And yes, in that case, a manual notch filter is indeed better, 
>>>>>> but show me a radio built today that has one.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I find the Eagle's notch filter effective on SSB.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 73
>>>>>> Rick, DJ0IP
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
>>>>>> Bernie Skoch via TenTec
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 3:21 AM
>>>>>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>>>>>> Cc: Bernie Skoch; w2iy@verizon.net
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] notch filter for Eagle?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "It's sort of useless, like all Ten Tec notch filters..."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I _LOVE_ my Orion II notch filter!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The automatic feature is good, but the manual one is about the 
>>>>>> best I've ever used.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 73,
>>>>>> Bernie
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jul 19, 2017, at 16:33, Gary F<dukeshifi@comcast.net>  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Eagle does have a notch function. I don't recall how to 
>>>>>>> activate it
>>>>>> but it is in the manual.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It's sort of useless, like all Ten Tec notch filters, since it 
>>>>>>> is outside
>>>>>> the AGC loop, so, while it does not have the carrier, it also 
>>>>>> attenuated your desired signal by about as much as it reduces the 
>>>>>> carrier.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The reduction to 20 watts in Tune is self-defense. Orion's do it 
>>>>>>> too. This
>>>>>> is to prevent the presence of full 100 watts into a mismatch. It 
>>>>>> is good policy.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Orion's had an option in which you could press the Power button, 
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>> believe, to get 100 watts in Tune after match had been reached.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Red arid green the A//B VFO, there really is no A or B VFO in 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> traditional sense and Eagle only has one tuning knob. Therefore, 
>>>>>> the A/B indicator serves no function in transceive operation. In 
>>>>>> split operation, that indicator should flip when going fro RX to 
>>>>>> TX to tell you which displayed frequency is the TX frequency.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jul 19, 2017, at 3:05 PM, Michael Tortorella<w2iy@verizon.net>  
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all, I am hearing an awful lot of steady carrier signals up 
>>>>>>>> here in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> frozen north of Downeast Maine.   Most are not very strong and they go
>>>>>> away
>>>>>>>> when I disconnect the antenna so they are external to the radio.
>>>>>>>> Today I am chasing TR8CA on 20 CW, he is way down in the noise, 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> 100 Hz away from one of these carriers.  Sure would be nice to 
>>>>>>>> have something like a notch filter to help in situations like 
>>>>>>>> these but I could not see anywhere in the manual or front panel 
>>>>>>>> where I could notch the offending carrier.  Is there any list wisdom 
>>>>>>>> on this?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On another note, I did contact service at TT last week with my 
>>>>>>>> question about power out in autotune; after only a few days 
>>>>>>>> delay I got an answer that the power out in autotune is 20 
>>>>>>>> watts even though the power output shown on the display is 100.  
>>>>>>>> This seems not quite right from a human factors point of view, 
>>>>>>>> maybe there can be a firmware fix?  Also, when exchanging VFOs, 
>>>>>>>> the A,B labels do not change even when the B vfo is in large 
>>>>>>>> type at the top of the display.  I find this confusing.  OK, I 
>>>>>>>> guess this turned into a longer letter about a couple of other 
>>>>>>>> things besides notch filtering, so please excuse my prolixity 
>>>>>>>> and thank for the BW.  Any suggestions
>>>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks and 73, Mike W2IY
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ---
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>>>>>>>> http://www.avg.com
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