I'm sorry if I took your comments in the wrong way, Drew.
I'm all about contrary opinion. My point about outsiders is that we are
discussing something very technical about a particular aspect of
contesting. "Sounds like it might be XXXX" doesn't pass the smell test.
You have to understand the detail. That was my point. Outside
perspective is fine. In our current world, people are quick to form
opinions without all the facts. I don't think you are one of them.
By the way, for this SS, it turns out the NT operation will be classified
as a Multi-Single. Due to weather issues and a non-functioning Alpha
amplifier, Hal will do all the QSOing, but J will be participating,
manipulating antenna controls, a manually-tuned backup amplifier, and
adjusting antenna tuners. So, if anyone wants to go to NT (or do remote)
SOHP, it's WIDE open.
We can all discuss all the issues here, but they have been long-settled by
ARRL (for SS) and by CQ, etc for other contests. Perhaps if enough people
dislike remote so much, the pendulum may swing the other way. Somehow, I
don't think so, though. We all love TONS of Mults, and stations to run!
(evidenced by all the talk of self spotting.)
Many of us can create scenarios that conservatives would find incredulous.
Yes, Glenn. In your question "So did you work " Bouvet " or a neighbor
?" you worked Bouvet. The RF did not come from your neighbors house next
door.
And Dale, you can't change the rule about the 1,000 foot circle, even if
you don't like it. It's been settled.
73, Gerry W1VE
PS: To those who say the fault line of opinion lye with the age of the op,
I disagree. I've been playing the contesting game for 40 years now...
WA4UUX, AK4L, VE1RM, 6Y1V, 8P1V, VP2M/VE1RM, CY0SAB, P40LE, W2SZ, etc...
100s of multi-ops. I love this hobby and want to expand horizons.
Nothing sinister. I would say if your main interest in contesting is
chasing DX, you may have a stronger opinion in the negative. DX'ers do not
like change.
Keep the opinions flying! Just don't forget to get on the radio.
On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Drew Vonada-Smith <drew@whisperingwoods.org
> wrote:
> Gerry,
>
>
> I think you miss my point to some degree. I had tried to carefully not
> accuse anyone of anything or start a flame war. I think I acknowledged
> inclusiveness of opinions. Everyone has perfectly good intentions here.
> For any degree that it appeared otherwise, I apologize. I also do not mean
> to imply that the rules prevent any of this; as far as I know they do not
> and neither N6TR nor anyone else is a cheater. Nor will any of your
> projects set my hair on fire. Do as you like with my blessings, I am only
> offering my opinions about the direction of contesting. I've earned the
> right to do that, and I think I did so respectfully.
>
>
> But, I definitely do not agree with you that a non-ham can know nothing
> about it. An "outsider" can provide valuable perspective, and many of us
> do not see this type of operation as a positive thing. It is not silly to
> note their perspective, it is a way to gauge my own reaction against those
> with no stake in the matter, who look at aspects of a competitive sport
> with a neutral opinion on the technology. Please don't dismiss their
> intelligence.
>
>
> Noting all this publicly for discussion is very valuable. I hope I have
> opened the door for others to comment who appear to have been reluctant to
> do so.
>
>
> 73,
> Drew K3PA
>
> -----Original message-----
> From:Gerry Hull <gerry@yccc.org>
> Sent:Thu 11-05-2015 08:38 am
> Subject:Re: [CQ-Contest] Remote op & Who is this guy, really?
> To:Drew Vonada-Smith <drew@whisperingwoods.org>;
> CC:cq-contest@contesting.com;
>
> Hi Drew,
> How can your "non-hams" even comprehend the idea? They have no concept.
> Certainly, they are entitled to use words like "it's cheating" all they
> want. However, I guess contesting luminaries like
> N6TR are cheaters then? He did remote SS years ago. At WRTC 2014, we had
> seven remotes operating. Did the leading contesters in the world thing we
> were doing something wrong? I don't think so.
> Show, anywhere within the rules, where this is considered cheating. You
> are certainly entitled to not like it. Many hated SSB for years. Many
> lament assisted operating and the use of clusters. Is that cheating as
> well?
> If you have a strong opinion, that's welcome. Attributing words like
> "bogus, cheating and lost-your-way" to your "non-ham friends" is just silly.
> VY1 will remain rare, especially on CW, despite our efforts. Our
> contacts will count for Contests and all awards, including DXCC.
> Remote Amateur Radio is part of the fabric of our hobby, like it or not.
> Ask those hams who are HOA restricted.
> My next project, which will happen, will probably set your (and Paul's)
> hair on fire. The only constant in this world is change.
> 73 and hope to work you in SS.
> Gerry W1VE
> (Art: W1SJ? Mitch is a Phone Guy, and a good one!)
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Drew Vonada-Smith <
> drew@whisperingwoods.org <mailto:drew@whisperingwoods.org> > wrote:
> Friends,
>
>
> I had to take this opportunity after the comment about the end of rare
> sections...
>
>
> I think all this remote work, trying to help J. etc is interesting and
> wonderful and I really don't mean to be negative. But...what is the point
> of a "rare section" if you don't have to be there to operate? Doesn't this
> in many ways, miss the point of a multiplier?
>
>
> As an analogous example, what if a DXpedition were to put up an automated
> station in Bouvet, and operate it from home? Bouvet becomes common. What
> have we really achieved? HF propagation to Bouvet was never really the
> point, was it?
>
>
> I'm not a Luddite, I get the interest, good intentions, and technical
> achievement in all this. It sounds fun! But as a test to see if I was
> just narrow-minded or a fuddy-duddy, I ran this remote idea past a few
> non-hams who know just enough about contesting to understand. The comments
> I received were:
>
>
> - That's bogus
>
> - That's cheating
>
> - You guys have lost your way
>
>
> Can't say I disagree. Food for thought. Not to stop such operations,
> progress will always move forward, but to try and recognize what it all
> means and establish limits.
>
>
> 73,
>
> Drew K3PA
>
> -----Original message-----
> From:Art Boyars <artboyars@gmail.com <mailto:artboyars@gmail.com> >
> Sent:Wed 11-04-2015 09:21 am
> Subject:[CQ-Contest] Who is this guy, really?
> To:CQ-Contest Reflector <cq-contest@contesting.com <mailto:
> cq-contest@contesting.com> >;
>
> W1VE said: "Thanks to a lot of work from J and the remote team, Hal,
> W1NN,
> will operate [VY1AAA] SOHP in November SS via remote from his home in
> Ohio."
>
> OK, so "Hal, W1NN" will operate a NT station from his home in Ohio.
>
> But for the past many contests "Hal" has purportedly operated "W1NN" in
> Ohio ... remotely from Japan. (You could look it up.)
>
> Can we believe that "Hal" is really where he says he is, or that the
> station is where it claims to be, or even who he says he is?
>
> (In case I'm too subtle, that was a joke.)
>
> And Gerry will be (actually, physically) at K2LE in VT. Could that be
> competition for W1SJ?
>
> Are we about to see the end of rare Sections in SS? (Not a joke.)
>
> 73, Art K3KU
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