Re: [TenTec] OT: Question about TS-590 possible problem

[Don Allen <w9cw@yahoo.com>]

Question... why doesn't Bob, Rick or someone else post a query about all 
of this on the TS-590 Yahoo group?  There are some technically-oriented 
folks on that group, and I thought that Rick was a member.  Frankly, I'd 
find it hard to believe the TS-590 is a wide-band, or random noise 
generator. If that was the case, it should have never passed the design 
team's and factory QC tests, and FCC approval.
73
Don W9CW


On 10/7/2012 10:52 AM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
> If the noise is broadband then it passes through the bandpass 
> filters.  I've found that notch type filters are typically more 
> selective but more difficult to use.  Thus is the better approach to 
> use bandpass filters or band reject filters? If one plans to use 2 
> radios on the same band and each employees a bandpass filter then the 
> filters are not effective for either radio as the filters pass 
> frequencies within that band, both on transmit and receive.
> Ideally the effective use of bandpass filters must have the ability of 
> the filter to select a very narrow frequency range. Thus one filter 
> tuned exclusively for the CW portion and another filter tuned 
> exclusively for the SSB portion of the band.  As one implements 
> filters of higher selectivity the insertion loss, both ways, usually 
> increases.  Usually not a problem on receive as most receivers have 
> more than adequate gain.  However a 3 dB loss on transmit is a lot of 
> power and heat to be dissipated via the filter, not to mention only 
> 1/2 of the power getting to the antenna.  Bummer!  Notch type filters 
> are typically sharper with less insertion loss but require judicious 
> operator involvement.
> Choice of radios is very important when one plans to operate two or 
> more radios in close physical proximity and specially on the same 
> band.  Then one must consider antenna location and orientation.  There 
> are many of the current brands and models that will not perform well 
> in "mixed company" although they may be excellent "solo" radios.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP" <Rick@DJ0IP.de>
> To: "'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'" <tentec@contesting.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 3:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] OT: Question about TS-590 possible problem
>
>
> > Guys, I am thankful for every attempt to help, but..
> >
> > THIS IS THE 4TH TIME I HAVE WRITTEN THAT ***THEY ARE ALREADY USING 
> > BANDPASS
> > FILTERS (BPF)***.
> > They are either ICE or Dunestar, I didn't ask them which.
> > They have not tried stubs yet.
> >
> > Besides, even without bandpass filters, good radios do not transmit
> > broadband noise that wipes out all other bands.
> > I was team contesting long before I purchased two complete sets of 
> > dunestar
> > BPFs (15 years ago).
> > We could run 2 or 3 radios (especially Ten-Tecs) out of the same room 
> > with
> > antennas in close proximity of each other and the only interference was
> > harmonic related.
> >
> > We have a lot of experience in team contesting and understand the
> > technologies required there.
> > This is from our own experience, not from reading books.
> >
> > We are simply asking for experience with the TS-590.
> > I'm thinking the TS-590 is a random noise generator!
> > After receiving information I have received (off-reflector) I honestly
> > believe that.
> >
> > In the meantime the boys have organized a K2 and TS-850 and will 
> > repeat the
> > test.
> > Soon we will see if it's the radios.
> >
> > I'll report what we find out.
> >
> > Thanks anyway for all contributions on the topic of 590 and noise
> > generation.
> >
> > 73
> > Rick, DJ0IP
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don 
> > Jones
> > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 4:56 AM
> > To: 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'
> > Subject: Re: [TenTec] OT: Question about TS-590 possible problem
> >
> >
> > I am thinking that if these guys who are having trouble were to add a 
> > set of
> > BP filters it would go a long ways towards keeping the front ends of the
> > radios from going into gain compression.
> > Plus if the transmitters are dirty the filters will attenuate noise 
> > on the
> > other bands.
> >
> > I was reading the contesting section of the ON4UN low band DX'ing 
> > book and
> > see that a pair of 1/4 wave stubs separated by a 1/4 wave of coax 
> > makes for
> > a highly effective bandpas filter. If they have 3 spare 1/4 sections of
> > RG213 for 20M they could fabricate a very effective bandpass filter.
> >
> > Bandpass filters are standard fair for SO2R stations - same goes for
> > Multi-two contest stations. Not sure if these guys have considered
> > fabricating a tri-plexer based upon the QST article. I have built two of
> > them and they work great. Sounds like they need a little mentoring 
> > regarding
> > contest band plans and asset allocation for successful contesting. 
> > One note
> > on band plans, 10M and 20M do not play well together. The second 
> > harmonic of
> > 20M will come thru loud and clear on 10M. But then if 10M is open, 
> > 15M will
> > be too. So drop 20 and go to 10. Basically the 15M station stays put 
> > and the
> > 20M station picks up 10M if it opens.
> >
> > So where are they going?
> >
> > 73, Don KO7i
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/5/2012 12:43 PM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
> > > A couple of my friends are preparing for an expedition for CQWW and
> > > are
> > testing their config.
> > > They have 2x TS-590 transceivers and a pair of yagi antennas in close
> > proximity of each other (about 75' apart).
> > > The problem, they are seeing a broadband noise as soon as they key one
> > > of
> > the transceivers.
> > > Even with just 5w of power it is wiping out the other rig on all bands.
> > >
> > > My old grey cells seem to remember we discussed this here on the
> > > Ten-Tec
> > reflector about 6 months ago or so.
> > > Does anyone remember the details of this or do I have my wires totally
> > crossed?
> > > Was there a fix or have I dreamt this up?
> > >
> > > TNX guys, and sorry to spam the group, but if we can get these guys
> > > fixed,
> > we'll have a nice multiplier in CQWW.
> > > 73
> > > Rick, DJ0IP
> > >
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