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Re: [TowerTalk] Stacking question

To: TowerTalk <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Stacking question
From: n1rr@comcast.net
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 16:52:30 +0000 (UTC)
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
The "optimum" stacking distance is related to gain. 
Higher gain antenna require more spacing to prevent the wavefronts from 
cancelling. 
K1EA suggested back in the 90's to space HF monobanders by approx. 1.5 x 
BOOMLENGTH 

There's a lot of diagrams in VHF/UHF discussions about using more than one band 
on a single 
mast that can help you visualize the idea of these wavefronts & pattern 
interactions. 

HFTA applies optical ray tracing techniques and your input of a single line of 
your terrain from 
the base of your tower out to several miles beyond it to predict the sums and 
differences of 
all the rays from all your same-band phased / stacked antennas into a display 
of resulting 
far-field antenna gain in 1/2 or 1/4 degree increments. 

>From these plots you'll be able to identify nulls or peaks which will be 
>inherited from your terrain 
into your antennas' performance. You'll be able to use this as a tool to 
evaluate a tower location 
choice by band and by the direction for which you've provided the terrain data. 

Yes, the antenna system's pattern and gain will change as you vary the spacing. 
For each 
antenna design there will be a spacing that results in the peak forward gain, 
another will give 
peak FB, and other spacings for other criteria. 

The real guessing game comes when you try to tie propagation to all the above 
"averaged" data 
(i.e. Terrain plots from 20degs to 65degs averaged over 6 bands blah-blah & 200 
hrs later....) 
that you've gathered to optimize your choices. Will next month's propagation be 
better for the 
two long boom yagis or the 4-stack of mid-sized yagis ? Do I have to move that 
stack up or down 
next season ? 

K2TR tells a story from the W2PV days about one weekend on 10M or 15M when the 
best 
antenna all weekend was a simple 70 or 80 foot high 2-stack small of yagis. And 
we've all 
experienced or read about a given weekends conditions which were described as a 
"high_ 
antenna_weekend". 

"You can never have enough antennas." is the old saying..... I believe that and 
that flexibility 
& enough of the right antennas can get you closer to achieving the performance 
you wish for. 
With time your on-air experience will lead you to modify your beliefs as to 
what is needed. 
-Charlie N1RR 

----- Original Message -----

From: "StellarCAT" <rxdesign@ssvecnet.com> 
To: "TowerTalk" <towertalk@contesting.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 11:38:52 AM 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Stacking question 

These values are what M2 recommends - I assume based on their modeling 
results AND they are based on my own EZNEC modeling results. They work well 
with side and back lobes and achieving a great - well positioned take off 
angle. Added gain is in the area of 2.4 db for the 20 and 2.6 for the 15 
(referenced to the bottom antenna of course) which is about max for those 
heights above ground. Note the 20 is a 50' boom, the 15 a 45'. 

g. 



-----Original Message----- 
From: Richard (Rick) Karlquist 
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 11:21 AM 
To: john@kk9a.com ; towertalk@contesting.com 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Stacking question 



On 8/9/2016 7:03 AM, john@kk9a.com wrote: 
> I have no HFTA experience however after looking at the stacking distances 
> from people that have used it I would not recommend it. It puts the beams 
> way too close together in my opinion. 
> 
> John KK9A 
> 
> high for you! I've stuck with the M2 recommendations - and have in 
> modeling confirmed they work well. That is 60' on 20 and 45' on 15. The 
> 
> Gary 
> K9RX 
> 

According to my modelling, 60' on 20 and 45' on 15 are near the 
MAXIMUM stacking distances, being nearly a wavelength. Did I 
misunderstand what you were saying? 

Rick N6RK 

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