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Re: [Amps] Tetrodes

To: Ian White GM3SEK <g3sek@ifwtech.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Tetrodes
From: R@contesting.com;Measures <r@somis.org>
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 07:18:23 -0700
List-post: <mailto:amps@contesting.com>
On Jul 12, 2005, at 2:14 AM, Ian White GM3SEK wrote:

>   wrote:
>>
>> On Jul 11, 2005, at 11:36 PM, Ian White GM3SEK wrote:
>>
>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ... by stopping the flow of current into the screen PS.
>>>>>>
>>>>> If the "glitch" is an arc from anode to screen, the mains fuse 
>>>>> won't
>>>>> protect the screen at all.
>>>>
>>>> A tube that arcs from the anode to the screen is already a goner, 
>>>> Ian,
>>>> so there is nothing of value to protect.
>>>
>>> That simply isn't true. Well designed power supplies can protect the
>>> tube, the anode supply and the screen supply against a wide range of
>>> faults, including arcs. Many of these faults are completely
>>> recoverable.
>>
>> What condition would make the anode arc to the screen?
>
> As many folks will remember from previous repetitions of this topic,
> reasons for anode-screen arcs include:
>
> 1. Loss of load at a phase angle that results in extremely high anode
> voltages.

When load loss happens, the first thing to arc is the Tune-C.  The 
resultant metal-vapour arc reduces the anode potential to a few tens of 
volts.

> With certain amps, you can make this happen anytime you wish:
> remove load, apply full drive - BANG.

The bang is not from an arc in a vacuum.
>
> If the RF voltage is high enough, the anode flashes over to the next
> lower-potential object within sight.

In a typical amplifier, the Tune-C breaks down at less than 1/3 of the 
anode-grid breakdown potential -- so how can the anode potential keep 
rising when there is a metal-vapour arc at the Tune-C which limits the 
potential to 20 or so volts?.

> For a tetrode, this is usually the
> screen, so the screen supply experiences a very large negative current
> input from the tube.

Flashover from the positive anode produces negative screen current?  
Now there's a new one.
>
> For a GG triode, the RF arc will hit either the chassis if the arc is
> external, or the control grid if the arc is internal. An external arc 
> to
> chassis probably won't harm the tube, but an interna arc to the grid
> certainly can.

>
> The so-called "glitch resistor" in the B+ supply is a vital part of
> every tube amplifier, because it limits the peak current: it's simply
> Ipk=V/R. This resistor is not intended as any kind of fuse - it simply
> limits the maximum possible current for a few vital milliseconds, until
> something *else* has time to switch off.

As I see it, the top priority is to dissipate most the energy stored in 
the filter-C outside the tube -- i. e., in the glitch R.  With 15-ohms 
and 25uF, this happens rather expeditiously.

> Eimac Bulletin 17 covers this
> very adequately.
>
> If the power supply provides adequate over-current protection for the
> screen and anode supplies, and adequate over-voltage protection for the
> screen bypass capacitor, then arc faults due to loss of load can be
> completely recoverable. Re-connect the load, press the RESET button and
> the amp will come back online.
>
> 2. Bugs in the tube chimney. Don't ask me how they got in there,

No window-screen over the air inlet to the blower can do that.

> but in
> FD situations I have sometimes found an earwig or a moth bridging the
> anode and the screen. Again there's an arc and the amp trips out, but
> this time it won't come back online until the charred corpse has been
> removed.

RIP
>
> 3. Internal arcs due to gas release. I know that Rich doesn't like to
> accept this;

The reason is that I have autopsied a fair number of kaput electron 
tubes and I have yet to see any such arc craters or barnacles -- even 
in tubes that are gassy.  The idea that a big-bang being heard is 
certain evidence of an arc in the vacuum of the tube's envelope is 
laughable.


Rich Measures, 805.386.3734, AG6K, www.somis.org

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