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Re: [Amps] Direct rectification of AC mains to drive the amp,

To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Direct rectification of AC mains to drive the amp,
From: Manfred Mornhinweg <manfred@ludens.cl>
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2013 00:44:46 +0000
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Bill,

you are missing the main point here!

Another way to float the scope is with a sine wave type inverter running
from a 12 volt battery. Mount the inverter and battery in a box and you have
a portable power supply to run your scope or anything else. Add a trickle
charger for the battery and you're all set.

Yes, sure! But if you then connect the scope to a direct-line-powered circuit, the scope chassis and knobs STILL will have a dangerous voltage on it! That's exactly the same as using an isolation transformer to power the scope, or to simply use the scope's internal transformer for insulation, and lift its ground. In all three cases the scope's chassis will end up connected to the line through the circuit being measured!

The Fluke Scopemeter is a good solution, because that scope is fully insulated. Its enclosure and controls are all plastic, and its probes too use externally insulated BNC connectors. That's why it's quite safe to use on line-connected circuits. But most normal/older scopes have the probe ground connected to their metal enclosures, and so they are NOT safe to use them this way, and if someone does it anyway, he needs to be careful!

Hmm... I'm starting to see why some people here recommend not to incite anyone to build directly line-connected electronics... ;-)

As Peter says, running the amplifier, and NOT the scope, through an insulation transformer, is a safe thing to do during the test phase. The same applies to Bill's battery/inverter solution - it's safe to power the amp from teh battery/inverter, but NOT the scope! The downside is just that legal limit amps draw at least 2.5 kilowatts, possibly up to 3, and if poor power factor is involved, that could be 4kVA. Isolation transformers for that power level are expensive, and inverters and batteries even more so!

Despite all this, I will STILL build my electronics directly powered from the line, when it is convenient. And sometimes I will even float my scope to CAREFULLY take some measurements. But please, all of you out there, don't do this if you don't understand CLEARLY and COMPLETELY what sort of safety issues are involved! We don't have too many hams left these days, let alone any willing to even use a scope...

Manfred

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