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Re: [CQ-Contest] Single Op/Get Scores Assisted

To: "w1ve@yccc.org" <w1ve@yccc.org>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Single Op/Get Scores Assisted
From: Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 17:46:26 -0600
List-post: <cq-contest@contesting.com">mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>

I'm absolutely not saying the sky is falling.  In fact in my original post i 
said it was not a HUGE problem - mainly because if the number of people using 
it.  At what level of activity would it become a huge problem?  Is it OK now 
but not if a thousand were using it.  Would it be OK to sort the call signs 
according to needed multipliers.  Would it be OK to bump the call signs against 
your log by computer or with your own brain to see if you busted that rare one 
you could barely hear on 160?

 I do say that if Internet assistance is not allowed to verify call signs for a 
single operator and if Internet assistance is not allowed to help one know who 
is on what band at what time running stations, that accessing Get Scores by a 
single operator is assistance by any possible definition.  

It makes no difference whether anyone has taken serious action or not.  It is 
my opinion that it is not within the rules for a single operator (unassisted) 
to use the Internet to verify call signs or figure out when and what band 
needed multipliers are calling CQ during the contest. Do you think those 
activities are OK and within the rules?

73...Stan, K5GO

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 24, 2013, at 5:14 PM, Gerry Hull <gerry@yccc.org> wrote:

> Stan,
> I take your point, however, you are clearly trying to say "the sky is 
> falling" in regards to single op using score reporting, but clearly it's not. 
>  It that were the case, serious action would have been taken.  
> 73, Gerry W1VE.   That's "Gerry"  not Gary
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gary,
> I don't think any opinions about what it takes to be a "player" have anything 
> to do with the subject at hand. You can say you aren't a player if you live 
> in W6 or you are not a player if you don't have stacked Yagi antennas on four 
> bands.  Or you are not a player if you pay attention to the fact that an 
> African multiplier that you have yet to work is running stations on 10 meters 
> as clearly shown on the next Get Scores update.   It makes no difference.  
> What does make a difference is whether using the Internet to look at live 
> scoring to see potentially hundreds of stations that are participating in the 
> contest and know when and what band they are running smacks of spotting 
> assistance.  Think there is any possibility that the guy who would not have 
> properly copied a call sign on his own without assistance would then get it 
> correct by seeing the station's posting to Get Scores?  
> Whether we think this use or that use of the information is efficient or adds 
> to someone's ability to fall into the "player" category is not relevant.
> Stan, K5GO
> Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 24, 2013, at 8:15 AM, Gerry Hull <gerry@yccc.org> wrote:
>> Stan,
>> Getscores has been up for more than five years, and the Russian site has 
>> been up for a year or so.  No contesting authority has made any restriction 
>> against the sites, and I don't think they will.
>> If you are using the score posting site to make decisions about what to do 
>> in a contest, you are not a player at all.   In the best case, they can 
>> provide motivation.  They can provide some indicator of strategy, but you'd 
>> better have your own strategy if you want to place well. 
>> It is the option of the poster if they want to send their band breakdown.  
>> If they don't, it's pretty difficult to make any type of strategic decision 
>> based simply on a score.  What it does do, however, is motivate people to 
>> try harder and stay in the chair.
>> Those who use the scoring sites comment that it makes the whole process more 
>> interactive.   For those who won't place in the top ten, they typically 
>> "battle" with another local, and have more fun!
>> I find Skimmer and the RBN excellent for testing what my signal strength is 
>> around the world during a contest.   For example, from the east coast, 
>> within one minute of working my 1st station in EU (when the band opened to 
>> Europe on 40m Staturday afternoon), I could see my signal strength come up 
>> on the RBN.
>> Stack skimmer spots and work em?  What's wrong with that (in Multiop or 
>> Assisted)?    The idea here is to encourage MORE participation in contests.  
>> Evidence says that is happening.   For traditionalists, that should make 
>> them happy -- more people to work.  If you don't want to operate that way -- 
>> cool, more power to you.
>> My hats off to Pete and all the RBN crew -- it's an excellent network.  They 
>> are doing things to improve the accuracy.  None of what they do prevents 
>> "man and his radio" operation.
>> 73, Gerry W1VE
>> 8P1V next weekend, "man and his radio" mode, with Score Reporting to 
>> www.getscores.org.
>> On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 6:51 AM, Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com> wrote:
>> We posted our score to the RU site in the last contest for the first time 
>> and, although hesitant about doing that, I'll admit it was fun and 
>> entertaining.  Can't say I would have felt exactly the same if N3RS had been 
>> posting his score while trouncing us by about 8%.
>> I assume, but am not sure, that the only reason for using these sites is so 
>> you can look to see how you are doing compared to the competition. I am not 
>> sure about this but It makes sense then, to me, that single ops who are 
>> posting their scores are looking at that site - otherwise why post (for 
>> everyone else's entertainment?
>> It also makes sense that if you are looking at the site that you see others 
>> who are posting their scores and since you can see where the QSOs are 
>> racking up you know when and what band the other stations are running.  
>> Although not a HUGE problem at the moment with the number of stations 
>> posting to these sites, it occurred to me that as it grows and even being 
>> suggested by NQ4I that it be required (probably not going to happen) that 
>> single op unassisted entrants are actually assisted since they can know when 
>> and what band a juicy multiplier they need is running.
>> Take just a little bite at a time and 10 years from now it could become a 
>> scheduling process where the stations are programmed to jump around the band 
>> working everyone with computer interfaces.  If there are new participants 
>> they will like it all in the name of technological advancement and the old 
>> guys will still be complaining.
>> Next little bite, in my estimation, is getting Skimmer to copy and stack the 
>> call signs in a pile up to be picked off one after the other.  Surely this 
>> has been tried?  Just saying...
>> 73...Stan, K5GO
>> Sent from my iPad
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