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Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update number II

To: rfi@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update number II
From: Dave Cole <dave@nk7z.net>
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 12:02:23 -0700
List-post: <mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
If it is new, tell the company that sold it to you, you want your money back, a fix, or a different stove, and let them know why... Nicely of course, but firmly.

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 5/22/20 10:42 AM, Randy Diddel wrote:



Hello all,

Bad news. The tech come out and replaced the system board right behind the 
control panel. There was no change. The tech called the Samsung Repair Tech 
hotline while he was still here. The representative he talked to DID know of 
the issue and stated that there is no fix. I asked my tech to escalate the 
issue further. This was yesterday so there is no word yet.

I did look at the board and it is wide open and there is no sign or any 
shielding at all on the board or in the space inside where it sits.  I guess I 
wait for any word of what is next.

At this point, I am not sure what else to do. I will try ferrets but I feel 
like this is a bandaid and the issue deserves more attention.

I will report back once I hear from Samsung again.

73

K5RHD

/randy













This actually good news! Keep up the reports!

Kim N5OP

"People that make music together cannot be enemies, at least as long as the music 
lasts." -- Paul Hindemith

On May 14, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Dave Cole <dave@nk7z.net <mailto:dave@nk7z.net>> 
wrote:

?Thanks for sharing this info...

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net/>
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 5/14/20 10:51 AM, Randy Diddel wrote:
Just an update. I reached out to file a support ticket with Samsung and they 
dispatched a repair tech to our home to see the issue first hand. I was able to 
easily reproduce the issue for him. He has been in the business for over 10 
years and never has seen anything like this.
We pulled the stove out and we dragged an extension cord to another circuit to 
see if it made any difference. SPOILER: it didn?t-if anything it got worse with 
a longer power cord since we lengthened the antenna of the stove?.but I humored 
him. He also checked to make sure the outlet was properly grounded (it was).
The tech has ordered a new main board under warranty and will be back next week 
to install it. I have little faith that this is the issue but I am willing to 
work through their troubleshooting process. I work in IT and understand the 
progression so I am patient.
I will share more as we work through this issue.
73
K5RHD
/randy

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 15:32:36 -0500
From: "Lloyd - N9LB" <lloydberg@tds.net <mailto:lloydberg@tds.net>>
To: "'Hare, Ed  W1RFI'" <w1rfi@arrl.org <mailto:w1rfi@arrl.org>>,    <rfi@contesting.com 
<mailto:rfi@contesting.com>>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
Message-ID: <000d01d623e5$7b020060$71060120$@tds.net 
<mailto:000d01d623e5$7b020060$71060120$@tds.net>>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

Would alerting Underwriters Laboratories "UL" have any value?

-----Original Message-----
From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces+lloydberg=tds.net@contesting.com 
<mailto:rfi-bounces+lloydberg=tds.net@contesting.com>] On Behalf Of
Hare, Ed W1RFI
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 12:08 PM
To: Dave Cole <dave@nk7z.net <mailto:dave@nk7z.net>>; rfi@contesting.com 
<mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update

I do know that Paul Cianciolo has worked with a few hams on this issue. I am
not sure if he made any headway on it with Samsung, but I will see him later
this week and I can ask. He reads most of the posts here, but doesn't have
time to respond to all of them.

I am not a lawyer either, but from an FCC perspective, hams are responsible
only for interferece caused by spurious emissions and out-of-band emissions
from their transmitters.  That's not to say that a neighbor would not
initiate a lawsuit.   On the ARRL web page can be found information on
federal pre-emption of state and local RFI issues, which could incude civil
suit, but the nuances of law are such that a ham involved in that kind of
dispute is going to need an attorney.

Under US law, there are no federal requirements for immunity, so the
manufacturer is off the fedreal hook from an FCC perspective.  There may be
other federal requirements for appliance safety, though.  Either way, they,
too, would be on the hook for possible civil action should a fire result
from the use of their product under any circumstances although federal
pre-emption could apply there too. Again, more work for the attornies.

I do know that when Eaton was made aware that some of their AFCI breakers
were tripping due to RF, they were very interested and put two engineeers on
a plane from the west coast to witness ARRL's testing.  We accomodated them,
of course. So manufacturers can be very interested in anything related to
the safe use of their products.

Ed Hare, not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV.

________________________________
From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org@contesting.com 
<mailto:rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org@contesting.com>> on behalf of Dave Cole
<dave@nk7z.net <mailto:dave@nk7z.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:03 PM
To: rfi@contesting.com <mailto:rfi@contesting.com> <rfi@contesting.com 
<mailto:rfi@contesting.com>>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update

You might compose a short note to them, letting them know of the safety
issue, and your fear of a fire as a result of their failure to sufficiently
deal with the RFI issues they clearly have.

At a minimum, take copious notes, with everyone's name and times/dates, and
what was discussed.

The problem is, if I understand the rules correctly, YOU as the owner are
responsible, and must accept all interference caused to your device.

Maybe Ed H could chime in here, and help clarify that a bit. I am not a
lawyer, and not exposed to this as much as Ed is...

--
73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net/>
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 5/6/20 8:37 AM, EDWARDS, EDDIE J via RFI wrote:
I suggest you don't tell them about how you lock it as a work around
solution.  Because there may be some other RF out there that could trigger
it too!  Ask them to fix the "susceptibility to RF signals" so that this
never happens unexpectedly like when you're not home.

This is a fire safety issue the manufacturer must fix or else replace with
a new unit that is not "susceptible" to wireless signals as RF signals are
everywhere and that's getting worse every day.

73, de ed -K0iL

-----Original Message-----
From: RFI <rfi-bounces+eedwards=oppd.com@contesting.com 
<mailto:rfi-bounces+eedwards=oppd.com@contesting.com>> On Behalf Of
Randy Diddel
Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 9:32 AM
To: rfi@contesting.com <mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update

I reached out to Samsung and logged a trouble ticket with them. The
Chatbot/person on the other end had no idea what Amateur/Ham Radio was nor
what RFI was either.  After explaining it to him he repeated his summary of
what he thought my issue was, "So your oven is getting too hot?"

A local repair company is going to come out and take a look. I at least
have a ticket number for the incident logged with Samsung but zero
confidence that they understand what the issue is or that they will be
willing to do anything about it.

The oven is new and under warranty but, well beyond the return date from
Lowe's.

I continue to lock the oven from the panel and it does unlock
occasionally. New behavior is that once locked, after I am done with
operating on 40M, the panel is completely non-responsive and I have to pull
the oven out and unplug the power to it and then plug it back in.

I am going to order up some ferrite and try what others have done as well
and just live with it. The XYL is not interested in trying another brand-she
likes the continuity of the kitchen appliances all being the same brand and
finish.

73

K5RHD

/randy

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