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Re: [TenTec] COMMUNICATIONS SPEAKERS Article

To: k9yc@arrl.net, Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] COMMUNICATIONS SPEAKERS Article
From: Richards <jruing@ameritech.net>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 13:10:30 -0500
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>


On 2/27/2013 3:19 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
On 2/26/2013 10:29 PM, Richards wrote:
YES - the author makes a good case for using something tailored to the
task.


   Bullsh&t.



        There is no need to get crude or angry over this.



What is needed for good speech quality is nothing more or
less than a loudspeaker with flat response AND uniform coverage in the
speech range.


        Funny... that is just what the author was
        saying.    And he suggested a center channel
        speaker as exactly that sort of thing.

        Otherwise, you have been outvoted by an entire
        industry - which sells center channel speakers
        expressly on the premise they enhance speech
        and dialog intelligibility.  And outvoted by legions
        of movie fans who buy them for that very reason.


                
And, because many (most?) ham rigs don't have high power
audio output stages, it needs to be fairly efficient. "Tailored to
speech?"  Horseh*t.  Nothing more or less than a decent small, accurate
loudspeaker that sounds the same over a fairly wide angle.


        Exactly what WE are saying !   Apparently you
        agree with us, after all.   You have just described
        what we mean by a  "speaker tailored for speech."



Now, it so happens that Optimus is the "house brand" that Rat Shack used
in the 70s and 80s. They didn't make anything themselves,


                Nobody does.... it all comes from some
                outfit in China.   Besides that is hardly
                relevant or probative of any point under
                discussion here.




the small speakers they sold under the Optimus name were pretty decent,
and we used them a bit for making noise in rooms to do acoustic
testing.  But "optimized for speech?"  Zebrash&t.


                You have missed the point entirely.

                We are only saying that a small, flat sounding
                speaker that does not have a lot of bass or treble
                is one that is "tailored for speech"  --

                Maybe we should say, instead, that that sort
                of speaker is  "most suitable for speech"
                intelligibility.  But your description fits what
                we are saying exactly.

                FACT -- not all speakers are well "suited for
                speech"  intelligibility -- which is why you
                specified "small" as a design criterion.

                FACT -- there are loads of flat response speakers
                that are not well suited for speech applications.
                Older, JBL studio monitor speakers with 15 inch
                woofers just do not sound as clear as, for example,
                the  5 inch Avantone MixCube speaker - or similar
                size center channel speakers.

                By specifying "decent small, accurate loudspeaker
                that sounds the same over a fairly wide angle"
                YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED EXACTLY WHAT IS
                RIGHT ABOUT THE CENTER CHANNEL SPEAKER
                AND WHAT MAKES IT WELL SUITED FOR VOICE
                APPLICATIONS.

                FACT -- not everybody agrees what sounds
                good.   Not all speakers with a flat
                response will suffice or please everyone.

        
In you effort to tell us how stupid we are, you have now overstated your case. I doubt you will convince the throng of ham operators that any old speaker with flat response will sound as good as any other speaker with flat response. Fact is, each speaker has it own character and not everybody will like the character of each speaker you play. That is why there are so many speaker manufacturers with so many different speakers to buy - not everybody agrees what sounds best.


                        

The reason that loudspeaker he likes sounds good on speech is that it's
a decent "flat" (natural) loudspeaker. .


        I disagree -- there is more too it.   It sounds good
        to him because it has less bass and less high end
        and TO HIS EARS that makes it easier to understand
        speech.

        MFJ makes a little product they call the speech
        intelligence enhancer - all built on the principle
        that the most speech intelligence is found in
        the mid-range - not the bass or high treble range -
        and it has equalizer controls to enhance that
        range compared to the extremes.

        My wife and I listen to old time radio programs
        most every night down in the shack.  I use a
        wide band frequency equalizer to reduce both
        the lowest and highest frequencies - because this
        enhances the intelligibility of the speech - dialog.
        
        We listen to these program with some of the
        most expensive high quality FLAT RESPONSE
        headphones made (usually a set by Sennheiser
        but we have others, too...)  - OR - we listen to
        the programs on very high quality FLAT RESPONSE
        powered studio monitor speakers - and we both
        agree this equalization makes it MUCH EASIER
        TO MAKE OUT THE DIALOG - just like Mr. Jue
        at MFJ says about his product.

        There is a reason they make center channel
        speakers with smaller woofer elements - because
        they do not have as much bass response.
        The author is correct - that is what people really
        do - and they do it because it really works.

        Instead, you tell us us to disregard all this and
        to disregard an entire industry and disbelieve
        the legions of movie fans who actually buy and
        use small center channel speakers because they
        actually do enhance speech intelligibility and
        make it easier to understand the dialog.

        In theory any old flat response speaker should
        do - BUT IN FACT, there is more to it and the
        size of the speaker, the size, material, and
        density, displacement and all that other
        jazz  which differentiates one from another
        DO IN FACT MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

        On your theory, we would all be using the highest
        quality studio reference monitors from  Genelec,
        Klein and Hummel, Quested, PMC,  Focal, or Tannoy
        because they fit your definition of "decent,
        accurate... flat response"  etc.   But in fact, many
        hams would not like them, and return to their
        favorite speaker.  For some it will be the cost, but
        for others, like me, it will be because I don't like
        how they sound on my ham radio, while I love the
        way they play music.

        My current fave... a nice BOSS 5.25" dual cone
        auto stereo speaker in a home made cabinet, or
        a $36 pair of Genius computer speakers - and I can
        afford any speaker I want.   I have a similar 4" speaker
        in a home made wood cabinet on my 2m and police
        scanner.  Why?  Because it sounds good to me - it cuts
        right through the ambient noise and makes it is easy
        to understand what people are saying.  A friend of
        mine who designs commercial grade audio products
        helped me dampen the cabinet to avoid resonance.
        


Bottom line - when you describe what works... you ARE describing a center channel speaker just like the author recommends. A small speaker with relatively flat response that just so happens to sound good on a ham radio. And the other ham is not foolish for thinking it sounds better TO HIM - and only he can say what sounds better to him. He cannot be wrong about that, while you may think it does not sound good to you.

Wondering what you recommend and use?

But that is just MY take...

PS -- I don't need an engineering degree to know what sounds good to me.


------------------------  K8JHR  -------------------------
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