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Re: [TenTec] Centurion 422b troubleshooting help needed

To: "'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'" <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Centurion 422b troubleshooting help needed
From: "rick@dj0ip.de" <Rick@DJ0IP.de>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 08:04:58 +0100
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
The point of looking for the cause is well taken, but you guys may be thinking 
in the wrong direction.

There is a possibility that common mode current is the cause of the breakdown.
To be on the safe side, I would place a good RF Choke directly on the output of 
the amp.  I do that all the time.  I also use one between the amp and the 
transceiver.

73 - Rick, DJ0IP
(Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)



-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary J 
FollettDukes HiFi
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 5:25 AM
To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Centurion 422b troubleshooting help needed

I can only imagine that using legacy old inventory would be the best choice if 
indeed manufacturing issues are the root cause. These are readily available on 
the “world’s largest auction site”.

However, with a transistor with 20 amp capability is keying a line with a 
maximum of 1 amp of current, and there appear to be multiple examples of 
failures, I have to wonder where the problem lies.

One could speculate that using a transistor  in this capacity is a good idea at 
all. The reason is that, just as was the case with Cathode keying of old tube 
transmitters, the Cathode of a power tube in an amplifier can float to voltages 
that are pretty high, and this is what caused key clicks in those old Cathode 
keyed transmitters. If, by metaphor, the collector of the transistor in this 
keying scenario were to float up above the breakdown voltage of the transistor, 
then the transistor would act sort of like a Zener diode and pass current with 
power dissipation equaling the product of the Zener potential times the 
measured residual current flow, whatever that number might be. That transistor 
could run fairly warm…

It might be interesting to measure the voltage that appears at the collector 
during key up and determine if this is taking place. In addition, a current 
measurement of the current through the transistor (in a properly working 
amplifier) would be helpful.

I know a fix for the problem if it exists but won’t waste time with it until a 
need arises.

Gary

W0DVN



> On Feb 21, 2016, at 10:05 PM, A R <raf_3@msn.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Gary,
> 
> No problem here. I have a built-in autocorrect "uncorrector". I read 
> "overcurrent" despite the autocorrect's corruption.
> 
> I'm inclined to suspect the failures are due to a device mfg quality 
> issue...like doping impurities, and probably lot-related. Wish I had the date 
> codes from the failed devices (assuming that they were all MJ15001's). The 
> one in my amp carries the "ON" logo, is from Mexico, and has a lot code of 
> "BM0318". I believe that Harris also makes the MJ15001. Too bad Motorola is 
> no longer mfg such devices here in the valley. Do we have any on-shore 
> manufacturers of semi's anymore?
> 
> 73,
> 
> Allen--W7GIF
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> From: Gary J FollettDukes HiFi<mailto:dukeshifi@comcast.net> 
> 
> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment<mailto:tentec@contesting.com> 
> 
> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2016 8:25 PM
> 
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Centurion 422b troubleshooting help needed
> 
> 
> 
> Darned AUTOCORRECT!
> 
> “overcurrent”, NOT “overcorrect”!
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 9:17 PM, Gary J FollettDukes HiFi 
>> <dukeshifi@comcast.net<mailto:dukeshifi@comcast.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> This transistor sounds like a likely candidate as the amp is acting like it 
>> is keyed regardless of the state of the keying line.
>> 
>> Question is, why did it fail? A 2N3055 is good for 15 to 20amps so 
>> overcorrect is not a factor. Is there adequate transient suppression around 
>> this transistor to protect it from voltage transients?
>> 
>> Just curious…
>> 
>> Gary
>> 
>> W0DVV
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 8:03 PM, Carter 
>>> <k8vt@ameritech.net<mailto:k8vt@ameritech.net> 
>>> <mailto:k8vt@ameritech.net<mailto:k8vt@ameritech.net>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 2/21/2016 7:42 PM, A R wrote:
>>>>  My Centurion 422b amp is sick. With initial application of power, in 
>>>> selected PTT and STANDBY modes (and un-keyed), the 3-500's are drawing 140 
>>>> ma plate current (and barely perceptible grid current). Panel MODE led's 
>>>> indicate proper mode when switched between STANDBY and OPERATE, and the 
>>>> TRANSMIT led is unlit. When placed in OPERATE mode, and keyed (at the PTT 
>>>> RCA jack), the TRANSMIT led is illuminated. Keying the PTT input when in 
>>>> STANDBY mode does NOT illuminate the TRANSMIT led. So, the panel 
>>>> MODE-indicating led's suggest that mode control functions are OK. The RF 
>>>> input/output switching/routing is correct for all modes.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Have begun troubleshooting the QSK board, and Filament-AC board (with the 
>>>> tube bias circuitry), and the HV filter board, but have found that the 
>>>> componentry on those boards differs from that described in the 422 
>>>> (no-suffix) manual. Although the manual available on the RKR website is 
>>>> identified as a 422b manual, it appears to be for a 422 (no-suffix) amp. 
>>>> In that manual, there are discrepancies between the schematic and board 
>>>> layout and circuit trace views for the FILAMENT-AC, QSK, and HV FILTER 
>>>> boards. And, the QSK board in this amp is a p/n 78247, not the 81542 
>>>> called out in the 422 manual.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sure sounds like the bias transistor on the Filament-AC board. Been there, 
>>> done that.
>>> 
>>> Let us know how you make out...
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Carter   K8VT
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