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Re: [TowerTalk] Best tuner value? (I think that was the topic)

To: "Jim Lux" <jimlux@earthlink.net>, <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Best tuner value? (I think that was the topic)
From: Jeff Stai WK6I <wk6i@twistedoak.com>
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:46:26 -0800
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
hi Jim and group - I finally got an answer back on pricing for that ACOM 
03AT tuner - and I quote:

Hello Jeff, thank you for your request.
...
The 03AT is $ 9950.00
...

I guess I now know why there were no reviews on eham...! - jeff wk6i


At 09:39 AM 11/29/2003, Jim Lux wrote:
>Indeed, this is exactly what I was talking about... it's basically a CLC pi
>network.  The LDG is very similar internally, except that they use a L
>network, and switch the C from one end to the other depending on the
>impedance ratio.
>
>No data on prices on the hfpower web site.  I suspect that this isn't an
>inexpensive unit (>$1K if I were to guess)..
>
>I like the idea of optical fiber interconnect.  now that you can buy premade
>optical cables for less than coax, it's a great way to solve the problem of
>common-mode, "ground level shifts,loops" and EMI/EMC. Another approach would
>be to use standard CAT5 type 100BaseT ethernet, which is transformer
>isolated, although I don't know how immune it would be to strong RF fields.
>
>Just this morning, I was thinking that something like a big steel NEMA 4
>Hammond Box with a ethernet microcontroller to generate the control signals
>for relays, etc., and send telemetry back, a very well filtered DC feed with
>a DC/DC converter inside the box, and an optical or RF link would be a good
>start. You could put almost any sort of tuning apparatus inside the
>enclosure.  The control stuff would be in a subenclosure for EMI/EMC.
>
>However, it wouldn't be cheap... those NEMA 4 enclosures are $100+, even for
>small ones (12x12x6).. a more useful size 20x16x8 is $320 (based on a quick
>check in the Grainger catalog)
>
>Assuming that you can't use surplus components, you're looking at a couple
>of capacitors and an inductor at around $100 each, plus a suitable drive
>motor and electronics (probably another $100 or so, per drive), for $600.
>Multiple relays and fixed components would probably be a bit less expensive
>(figure 8 L's, 16 C's, 24 relays and drive electronics, but the L and C are
>in the few dollar range, as are the relays..)... well maybe not all that
>much cheaper.. 24 things at $5 each is $500
>
>The controller would be $100-200, plus the optical or RF interface (another
>$100).
>A decent DC/DC power supply which operates over the temperature range and is
>well filtered is probably $50
>
>Then, you'd need 4-8 hours of assembly labor to drill holes, weld brackets,
>etc., for another couple hundred dollars (figuring a burdened (taxes,
>utilities, insurance, etc.) cost of $25/hr for shop time)
>
>That makes your "out the door" cost around (300+600+150+100+50+200) = $1400,
>before you add profit,shipping, development and design costs, etc.  As a
>rule of thumb, we used to figure that the "undiscounted retail price" of a
>product would need to be 5-10 times the parts cost, depending on the level
>of integration.  In this case, the undiscounted retail price might be only
>3x...(allowing for discounting to retail sales folks, etc.)
>
>Is anyone really willing to pay $3000 for a state of the art remote antenna
>tuner? (other than a broadcast installation, where they DO pay this kind of
>money)
>
>Yes, one COULD build it a lot cheaper in small quantities if you used
>scrounged surplus components, counted your labor as free, etc., but that
>wouldn't be a "product".  I, among others, I'm sure, has fallen into the
>trap of designing something based on surplus components, and found the
>components no longer available when it came to putting it into production.
>
>Jim, W6RMK
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jeff Stai WK6I" <wk6i@twistedoak.com>
>To: "Jim Lux" <jimlux@earthlink.net>; <towertalk@contesting.com>
>Cc: <k5uj@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 8:51 AM
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Best tuner value? (I think that was the topic)
>
>
>> At 05:55 PM 11/28/2003, Jim Lux wrote:
>> >Alas, there aren't sufficient folks lining up to buy such a clever tuner
>> >controller, so even though the parts cost would be low, the development
>cost
>> >would be high (say, 40K-50K, if you paid someone to do it).  Are there
>500
>> >potential sales out there?  I thought not.
>>
>> this looks like something in that direction, stumbled into it the other
>day:
>>
>> http://www.hfpower.com/new/03at.htm
>>
>> but there are no reviews on eham - anyone actually seen one?
>>
>> thanks! - jeff wk6i
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Stai               jds@twistedoak.com
>> Twisted Oak Winery      http://www.twistedoak.com/
>> Rocketry Org. of CA     http://www.rocstock.org/
>> Amateur Radio           WK6I
>>
>>

--
Jeff Stai               jds@twistedoak.com
Twisted Oak Winery      http://www.twistedoak.com/
Rocketry Org. of CA     http://www.rocstock.org/
Amateur Radio           WK6I


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