I would be VERY careful!!!!! Those are rated for pulling and not lifting.
BTW.....it's winch, not wench.
A wench is not afraid to stand on her own.
A wench is beautiful, regardless of size, shape or color.
A wench is unafraid to use body, brains and brawn to get what she wants.
A wench doesn't need anyone to tell her how to live, love, look or dress.
73
Greg
AB7R
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com]On Behalf Of C Dwight Baker
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:36 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] Tower wench failure
Fellows, get a wench used on the front of a truck or ATV. I use one and it
is great. Positive stop anywhere. Cheap too. You can get them in AC or
battery powered. Your friendly Home Depot may carry them.
Dwight W4IJY
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
towertalk-request@contesting.com
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:49 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 51, Issue 41
Send TowerTalk mailing list submissions to
towertalk@contesting.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of TowerTalk digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. 40 meter vertical to 80 meters. (Lee Buller)
2. Re: Tower winch failure (Joe Giacobello)
3. Tower winch failure; revised (KT2Q)
4. [antenneX] Qubical Quad Notes W4RNL - Volume 3 Released
(K7LXC@aol.com)
5. Re: Tower winch failure (Dino Darling)
6. 40 meter vertical to 80 meters. (john@kk9a.com)
7. Re: Tower winch failure (Dino Darling)
8. Re: Tower winch failure (Greg)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 10:18:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Buller <k0wa@swbell.net>
Subject: [TowerTalk] 40 meter vertical to 80 meters.
To: TowerTalk Reflector <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <669814.72527.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Ladies and Gents,,,
Last year, I build a homebrew 1/4 wave verticle and mounted it on the
ground with 16 radials underneath it. I am in the process of adding 16 more
radials. The antenna is made out of aluminum tubing starting with and 1"
1/4 and going down to 3/4". The length is 32 feet and with 16 radials under
it...it resonates at 7.100...at least it is flat there...and the MFJ 259
says it has imdedance of 55 ohms...R=53-55, X=3-6, Theta is 10 degress,
Works good too.
What I want to figure out is how to had a "top-hat" to the antenna to
bring it down to 80 meters. I know that the MFJ brand of verticals uses a
top hat loading scheme and I wonder how you calculate or figure out the
capacitance one would need to build something like this? Or, is it trial
and error?
In addition, the top of the antenna is fairly small tubing (I am afraid I
will bend it with to much weight or load) and I need to come down on the
antenna about 8 feet to install the top hat. I guess one would have to use
trial and error to find the right combination of "spokes and Lenghts" to
make the capacitance hat. Looking at the Handbook, it does not really have
a "formula" for such things.
Anyone have any insite? Give me a starting point?
73
Lee - K0WA
In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you
don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you
can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common
Sense. Is Common Sense devine?
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 13:23:28 -0400
From: Joe Giacobello <k2xx@swva.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Tower winch failure
To: Al Williams <alwilliams@olywa.net>
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <45FC2410.7010408@swva.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I'm using 2550s on LM-470s here too and wasn't aware of the
free-wheeling mode. I'd appreciate hearing the details too.
73, Joe
Al Williams wrote:
> The holes in the k2550 mounting plate do not match the holes in the K1550
> mounting plate. When I replaced a k1550 with a k2550 I had to ream out
some
> (I forget how many) of the holes by up to about 3/8 inch. That wasn't a
big
> task.
>
> What bad things are true of the Fulton 1550 winch?
>
> I believe that its braking system is similar to the Fulton 2550. I
> replaced the k1550 with the k2550 because the k1550 being used in the
> tiltover portion of LM470 squealed so strongly that it was a wonder that
> neighbors didn't come running to complain. I calculated that because of
> weight and cable angles involved that the winch was being overloaded.
This
> occurred when tilting the tower back down using the initial sling setup
i.e.
> not changing tower to tilt at the ears at the top of the tilt fixture.
The
> k2550 tilts the tower quietly.
>
> What do you mean by "...puff, the Fullton 1550 winch broke."
>
> On an earlier posting I reported that there is a free wheeling mode that
the
> Fulton winch can get into. This occurred to me with the k2550 when the
> crank arm started running away as I began tilting the tower from vertical
> down. I grabbed the handle as it was spinning slowly and stopped it.
There
> appears to be a spring loaded "cocking" of the clutch that needs to be
> completed before the clutch is engaged. I would appreciate if any
> towertalkers can explain how brake winches work. I know that it is the
> clutch but it seems strange that a little dinky friction can withstand the
> force of the towers pull!
>
> k7puc
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "KT2Q" <dxdx@optonline.net>
> To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 8:02 AM
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Tower winch failure
>
>
>
>> All:
>>
>> Was cranking my US Tower HDX555 up after last
>> nights ice storm when puff, the Fullton 1550 winch
>> broke.
>>
>> I thought there would have been damage to the
>> tower and antennas, but it came down much slower
>> than I thought it would; guess it was probably due
>> to the mechanical drag of the unwinding winch and
>> caked ice and snow.
>>
>> The only thing I'm worried about now are those
>> parts of the tower that stop the inner sections
>> from slamming into the foundation. It landed in
>> packed ice and snow at the base when it came down.
>>
>> Looks like all the bad things are true about the
>> Fullton 1550 winch; anyone know if the 2550 is a
>> direct bolt-on for the HDX series? Where can I get
>> one?
>>
>> 73 Tony KT2Q
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 13:33:49 -0400
From: KT2Q <dxdx@optonline.net>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Tower winch failure; revised
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <00c201c768ba$6cb95700$6501a8c0@TOSHIBA>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
All:
After clearing the ice from the winch, I can now
see that the pawl or spring-loaded latch is still
there, but it looks like the crank shaft that the
sprockets are attached to shifted to one side
causing the sprockets to go out of alignment with
the pawl. Looks like whatever held the shaft
inline, must have broke. Could be a bushing issue.
Antennas look fine, just worried about any damage
to the tower "stops" that keep it from slamming
down.
Tony KT2Q
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 14:15:32 EDT
From: K7LXC@aol.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] [antenneX] Qubical Quad Notes W4RNL - Volume 3
Released
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <c38.116791a5.332d8a44@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Howdy, TowerTalkians --
FYI.
Cheers,
Steve K7LXC
> * Announcing the release of a new book by LB Cebik, W4RNL *
============================================================
Cubical Quad Notes Volume 3: Multi-Band Quad Questions
By L.B. Cebik, W4RNL
Volume 3 of Cubical Quad Notes extends the work begun in the first two
volumes. This 3rd Volume in the series explores a number of questions
involved in the design of multi-band quad beams. Beginning with
2-element designs, Cebik analyzes element interaction in spider
designs and then sorts those interactions from others that involve the
use of a common feedpoint. The work involves the accumulation of
significant quantities of data in order to develop reliable trends in
quad performance.
In Volume 1, Cebik reviewed extensively the design of cubical quad
beams up to the time of its writing. Designs consisted of roughly 3
types: full size monoband 2-element quads, shrunken quads, and
examples of monoband and multi-band quads with more than 2 elements.
Volume 2 endeavored to re-think the quad beam, with special emphasis
on monoband designs. To rectify performance deficiencies, the volume
optimized the performance of monoband beams and committed the
optimization to a series of computer design programs.
Volume 3 of Cubical Quad Notes has 249 pages, with 140 illustrations
and numerous data tables.
Please go to our Main Announcement Page for more info:
http://www.antennex.com/news/index.html
====================================================
Thanks for your time & hope to see you soon!
(^_^)
Jack L. Stone, Publisher
antenneX Online Magazine
http://www.antennex.com
jack@antennex.com
************************************** AOL now offers free email to
everyone.
Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 11:31:38 -0700
From: Dino Darling <dino@k6rix.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Tower winch failure
To: KT2Q <dxdx@optonline.net>
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <20070317183152.9BAE1319544@dayton.contesting.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed;
x-avg-checked=avg-ok-348F8ED
You'll be looking long and hard to find a better winch. I have used
these winches on towers and in the traffic control industry (by the
thousands) for over 20 years. A winch failure is not impossible, but
it is usually due to poor maintenance in harsh environments.
The engineers picked the 1550 for a reason. The 2550 has more
capacity at a reduced (1/3) speed. BTW, how long did the 1550 last?
If you are comfortable with picking a winch that may have not been
used for your application, then that is your prerogative. I'd
suggest going with the original 1550 and maybe upgrade to the 2550 if
you don't mind spending the extra $$$. Also, there is a KX version
of the 1550 which "offer plated gear covers for improved gear train
protection, and a dual ratchet system for added load control security."
Here is a post from 2003...
http://lists.contesting.com/_towertalk/2003-08/msg00556.html
Search for winches...
http://www.nextag.com/Fulton/fulton-winches/brand-html
Good luck!
At 09:26 AM 3/17/2007, KT2Q wrote:
> I was hoping the 2550 had a heavy duty mechanism compared to the
> 1550. I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for a better winch.
>
>Tony KT2Q
Dino - K6RIX
dino@k6rix.com
--
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Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.13/725 - Release Date: 3/17/2007
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 14:37:47 -0400
From: <john@kk9a.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] 40 meter vertical to 80 meters.
To: <TOWERTALK@contesting.com>
Cc: k0wa@swbell.net
Message-ID: <001d01c768c3$5d5d3750$67164ed8@Basement>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
A 32 foot vertical will need a pretty large top hat to be resonate on 80m
and I don't think that your tubing is of adequate size to support it. If
you come down 8 feet as you suggested you will need an even larger top hat
as I don't think having your vertical go above the top hat does much. You
can easily model this to come up with the top hat sizes. A vertical with a
top hat will have a lower impedance than a full sized one so you'll likely
need some type of matching system. Another effective method of top
loading is to run a wire (30 - 40' long) from the top of your vertical to a
tree or back down to the ground on an angle.
John KK9A
To: TowerTalk Reflector
Subject: [TowerTalk] 40 meter vertical to 80 meters.
From: Lee Buller <k0wa@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 10:18:28 -0700 (PDT)
Ladies and Gents,,,
Last year, I build a homebrew 1/4 wave verticle and mounted it on the
ground
with 16 radials underneath it. I am in the process of adding 16 more
radials.
The antenna is made out of aluminum tubing starting with and 1" 1/4 and
going
down to 3/4". The length is 32 feet and with 16 radials under it...it
resonates at 7.100...at least it is flat there...and the MFJ 259 says it has
imdedance of 55 ohms...R=53-55, X=3-6, Theta is 10 degress, Works good too.
What I want to figure out is how to had a "top-hat" to the antenna to
bring
it down to 80 meters. I know that the MFJ brand of verticals uses a top hat
loading scheme and I wonder how you calculate or figure out the capacitance
one
would need to build something like this? Or, is it trial and error?
In addition, the top of the antenna is fairly small tubing (I am afraid I
will bend it with to much weight or load) and I need to come down on the
antenna about 8 feet to install the top hat. I guess one would have to use
trial and error to find the right combination of "spokes and Lenghts" to
make
the capacitance hat. Looking at the Handbook, it does not really have a
"formula" for such things.
Anyone have any insite? Give me a starting point?
73
Lee - K0WA
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 11:42:50 -0700
From: Dino Darling <dino@k6rix.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Tower winch failure
To: k2xx@swva.net
Cc: Al Williams <alwilliams@olywa.net>, towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <20070317184302.018BE319A60@dayton.contesting.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed;
x-avg-checked=avg-ok-348F8ED
The K series winches are not designed or intended to freewheel. This
is not a feature, but an anomaly.
>I'm using 2550s on LM-470s here too and wasn't aware of the
>free-wheeling mode. I'd appreciate hearing the details too.
Dino - K6RIX
dino@k6rix.com
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.13/725 - Release Date: 3/17/2007
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 11:48:51 -0700
From: "Greg" <ab7r@cablespeed.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Tower winch failure
To: "Dino Darling" <dino@k6rix.com>, "KT2Q" <dxdx@optonline.net>
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <CPECIMPDCAFCMNMEBCMLOEOCCJAA.ab7r@cablespeed.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Also keep in mind MOST other winches are designed/rated for pulling, not
lifting. Please don't think because a winch is rated for 1500 lbs pulling
it will lift that weight safely, it will not. The Fulton/Bulldog winches
are rated for pulling and lifting, that's why tower manufacturers supply
them with their towers. If you are careful not to get lube on the discs and
maintain it properly. I plan to replace the discs and pawl assembly every
few years.....probably whenever I replace the cable. May be a bit overkill,
but cheap insurance and peace of mind.
GL
Greg
AB7R
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com]On Behalf Of Dino Darling
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 11:32 AM
To: KT2Q
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Tower winch failure
You'll be looking long and hard to find a better winch. I have used
these winches on towers and in the traffic control industry (by the
thousands) for over 20 years. A winch failure is not impossible, but
it is usually due to poor maintenance in harsh environments.
The engineers picked the 1550 for a reason. The 2550 has more
capacity at a reduced (1/3) speed. BTW, how long did the 1550 last?
If you are comfortable with picking a winch that may have not been
used for your application, then that is your prerogative. I'd
suggest going with the original 1550 and maybe upgrade to the 2550 if
you don't mind spending the extra $$$. Also, there is a KX version
of the 1550 which "offer plated gear covers for improved gear train
protection, and a dual ratchet system for added load control security."
Here is a post from 2003...
http://lists.contesting.com/_towertalk/2003-08/msg00556.html
Search for winches...
http://www.nextag.com/Fulton/fulton-winches/brand-html
Good luck!
At 09:26 AM 3/17/2007, KT2Q wrote:
> I was hoping the 2550 had a heavy duty mechanism compared to the
> 1550. I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for a better winch.
>
>Tony KT2Q
Dino - K6RIX
dino@k6rix.com
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------------------------------
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End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 51, Issue 41
*****************************************
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