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Re: [TowerTalk] [Bulk] Re: 90 degree coax bend atop a crankup tower

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Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [Bulk] Re: 90 degree coax bend atop a crankup tower
From: "Roger (K8RI) on TT" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net>
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2015 23:00:53 -0400
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
I had 5 100' vertical runs of LMR-400 on the corner of a 45G. All were securely taped every 3 feet. at the top and bottom were bulkhead connectors to ground the shield. In less than 5 years "all" of the center conductors had migrated far enough that the N connectors were intermittent.

During the same period, the 5 LMR-400UF 28' long pigtails had the jackets deteriorate where they laid on the tower top plate to where as much as 6" of shield was exposed. Only one did not have shield showing, but when I went to make jumpers out of it, I discovered that much of the foil shield was badly corroded.

I took the 5 100' runs LMR-400 down. I reinstalled it and the connectors with single turn stress release coils at roughly 50 feet and 90 feet. This left the runs about 6 to 8 feet short. (12" Diameter coil = 37" ...16" dia = 50") I moved the bracket for the bulkhead grounding connectors down to the ends of the coax and made the pigtails about 6' longer.

I had no further problems with coax center migration.

The point is what ever you use for support including supports made to grab the coax, "finger cuff style" does nothing to support the center conductor. My coax was secured every three feet, (far better than any crank up supports) yet the center migrated to the point where it had to be fixed. Adding the two simple one turn coils fixed the problem.
The one, half way up, would present a problem on the crank up.

My experience shows "to me" that those using N-type connectors on vertical runs without problems are quite lucky.

A few years later, I had to take the antennas down because the second TB3 thrust bearing had failed. (I knew I was over stressing them) http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Tower29.htm (BTW my wife took the photo, not me) As long as they were down, I replaced the LMR-400 with LMR-600 and the pigtails with BuryFlex(TM). The two one turn coils in the LMR-600 add almost 5 feet each (4'9")so each 100' run becomes 110 feet. The grounding connectors were moved back to the top of the tower. ( Circumference = Pi * d )

Although they sound good, I've had no luck supporting only the outside of the coax. In practice I had to fix every vertical run. BTW I had to replace the connectors on both ends of those runs. That's 10 connectors in my case, not counting those on the pigtails.

73

Roger  (K8RI)


On 6/5/2015 11:03 AM, Patrick Greenlee wrote:
Thanks grant. Apparently I was set to worrying over a non problem. I have seen but not used the Chinese finger cuff things for pulling wires through conduit using a winch and 3/4 inch rope. I hadn't seen the lace-on variety but those sound really handy.

Thanks again, a little experience trumps a whole lot of speculation.

Patrick   NJ5G

On 6/5/2015 9:39 AM, Grant Saviers wrote:
Tis the simple answer. Use a Kellems grip and then there is no stress on the bend. They are available to slide over the end of the cable or as "lace on" so they can go on an established length or where a connector on the cable is larger than the expanded diameter. LMR400, Buryflex, LMR600UF and the like have a specified tensile strength of 350 to 400# and a weight per foot of 0.07 to .16#/ft so one grip at the top handles up to 110' crank up with better than a 2:1 safety factor.

Grant KZ1W

On 6/5/2015 4:32 AM, ve4xt@mymts.net wrote:
Wouldn't holding the coax with a sling-type grip in such a way that the bend itself is a tension-free loop, solve both problems?

The issue in both cases is the unsupported weight of the coax pulling on the bend, yes? So if you took all the weight off the bend...

Or am I missing something?

73, Kelly
ve4xt


Sent from my iPad

On Jun 5, 2015, at 12:15 AM, "Roger (K8RI) on TT" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net> wrote:

Coax has two bend radius listed. A repeatable radius and a one time bend. It's a good idea to stay well away from both of these. The one time bend can be a very short radius. Short enough that the center conductor will want to migrate off center given enough time just laying on a flat surface. The repeatable bend radius is usually quite a bit larger and "should not damage the coax over a given number of bends. No, I don't know the number, but the minimum repeatable bend radius can still stress the coax.

Now hang a load on the coax in a vertical run. The center conductor will tend to migrate downward. In a 100 ft vertical run it's often enough for N type connectors to lose continuity. If the coax is supported only from the top with a relatively sharp bend, the center conductor will migrate off center. That's why several small loops evenly spaced up the side of the tower will remove the load from that top support.

There are several methods of supporting the coax from the top on crank up towers. Wire mesh and rope slings do a good job of holding the coax, but do nothing for the linear migration of the center conductor. Several commercial ones linked to on here appear to do a pretty good job,

Too sharp a bend causes the off center migration, while too wide a bend will allow the linear migration. There has to be "a best radius" for each size and type of coax. I'd choose about twice the repeatable bend radius. No concrete proof, it just looks right. Not exactly a scientific approach.

Tall, crank up towers put a lot of stress on the coax supported only from the top. Unfortunately supporting the coax at intermediate heights brings a whole new can of worms.

73

Roger  (K8RI)

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73

Roger (K8RI)


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