Correct.
Double it if you want. I can't imagine it taking more than 10 minutes to
load and clamp the fixture. Add another 5 for getting it out of the
fixture. That's 2+ per hour. Building the complete tower would take a
great deal more time.
I used to weld these and build the newer model welding fixtures.
http://www.handyindustries.com/truck-tailgates
3-4 per hour, 30+ for a ten hour day. That's loading the jig, welding,
unloading. 5th wheel gates had approx 56 individual welds depending on
model. Straights not as many. We used MIG welders. 0.035 diameter wire
and 90/10 Argon/CO2 gas. The louvers were 20ga and were welded top and
bottom to 16ga side channels and the V braces and support rods. It was
like welding toilet paper. I'd love to weld a tower section. Big fat
steel...crank up the welder and fly. The LCD helmet did help. No helmet
flipping.
On 1/2/2017 6:55 PM, Wayne Kline wrote:
I think the 10 minutes is the welding time, surly not the set up " installing the
pieces into the welding Jig " and from my observation only the bottom and top
area plates ( which would have the pillow block brackets pre welded on ) are the only
area which would require multiple passes .
With big Arco or Miller Flux core machines .... 10 min would be on the low
end of time But 30 to 35 min from raw pieces to finished craned off unit
more like it.
Wayne W3EA
________________________________
From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> on behalf of EZ Rhino
<EZRhino@fastmovers.biz>
Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 6:44 PM
To: Towertalk Reflector
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] US Tower price increase
Ten minutes huh? I want to see that. Send me a video.
Chris
KF7P
On Jan 2, 2017, at 16:26 , Kevin wrote:
Chris,
I used to do it for a living. I was certified to weld just about anything
anywhere, except underwater.
They are NOT a start up. They've had all the tooling and "machinery" for many
years now. ALL of their crank ups are a variation of 5 or 6 20' tower sections whose
jigs were built years ago. I could probably weld one in 10 minutes, even with my poor
eyesight and prosthetic leg.
Press brakes, CNC Plasma tables, CNC lathes, welders, etc...don't need
replacing very often, if ever, given proper maintenance. We had a WWII turret
lathe that still put out very good parts, maybe not CNC quality but good enough.
They're building towers not high performance engines or wrist watches.
Kinda funny that Tashjian hasn't raised their prices by a factor of three.
They're 20 miles apart and probably have quite a few of the same suppliers.
They simply don't want to be in the amateur market any longer.
On 1/2/2017 4:56 PM, EZ Rhino wrote:
Good points Jim.
I may also add that a lot of us (including myself, at times) are spoiled. We
clickety click click on line, and two days later a product is in our mailbox.
We no longer realize how things are manufactured or the time, energy and cost
associated with producing a product.
Metal fabrication isn't an inexpensive or easy business to be in. The
machinery needed to fabricate a tower is expensive, er, I mean, EXPENSIVE! and
HUGE! CNC plasma tables, press brakes, welding equipment, CNC benders, jigs,
fixturing tables, tooling, tooling, and more tooling, and qualified experienced
operators of this machinery, and don't forget a huge building that can store
all this stuff. Metal fab is a slow process, lots of labor, and lots of trial
and error to figure out how to make something that functions correctly. Then
you need to figure out the most economical way to mass produce the product with
the least labor as possible. It's not easy.
I am not excusing the price increases at UST, as they do sound out of line.
But I do think getting a new 50-foot crank up for $3k is a bargain!
Also watch the used market, where you can get a real deal on some used stuff.
I watched the classifieds like a hawk for almost a year, finally found a TriEx
LM470 that was still horizontal, still partially crated, never installed, and
got it for a song.
Chris
KF7P
On Jan 2, 2017, at 15:43 , jimlux wrote:
On 1/2/17 11:38 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
Great response, Jim. BUT -- the increase noted by the original poster
was that the increase was overnight!
Several possible reasons for this. One is that business operations for
the ham market are often supported by higher volume and higher margin
operations for other markets. When those other markets fall apart, they
no longer support the ham market, or contribute to economies of scale
that allow lower prices.
Another is corporate mergers, which can change business priorities,
change where products are manufactured.
But assuming corporate greed as the reason for all such price increases
is unreasonable. It certainly can be, but there are many other reasons.
yes, I agree.. usually it's a "it's not economic to sell at that price any more, compared to
other products". I was more commenting on the "back in 85" comment.
I know someone who is buying 50 tower trailers with 100+ ft towers on them. That's a much better
sale proposition than onsie, twosie sales to individuals. Whether through distribution or not, the
support costs tend to be "per customer" not "per tower".
As for the overnight x3... That's a "we don't really want to be in this business" or
"our cost structure radically changed" kind of increase.
I've also seen that when you have a business founder of a family operated business retires/sells out: the
founder didn't have any debt service costs, was willing to live out whatever margin there was. The new owner
had to get a loan to buy the business and actually has to pay employees a wage and benefits - all of a sudden
instead of "my wife does the assembly and we're on the same insurance" it's "I've got to pay a
reasonable wage and provide vacation, insurance, etc.", I've got to pay rent and storage costs, I've got
to pay for the "cost of money".
A similar phenomenon occurs when a partner retires/dies/leaves and the
remaining partners have to buy them out.
Or, it's just - we don't want to leave existing customers totally in the lurch, but we
can't subsidize them either - we'll be responsible and at least make parts available, but
at cost that is basically "fabricate from scratch individually"
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