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Re: [TowerTalk] Modeling Rohn 25G in K6STI's AO

To: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Modeling Rohn 25G in K6STI's AO
From: Mark - N5OT <r-emails@n5ot.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 08:47:20 -0500
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Thanks Dave.

My old 40 meter elements all have big fiberglass rod insulators, so that is what will insulate the stinger.  We're on the right track.

I appreciate all the detail in your email.  K6STI allows me to place a simple source at the bottom and leave it there.  I need to review how to add a lump capacitance at the base, since the resonant frequency will be little lower than the operating frequency.  I figure I can dial in the resonant frequency with a variable capacitor but the model will get me in the ballpark as far as the range of the capacitor I will be looking for in the junk box.

The guy wires will all be insulated less than a foot out.  I'm ignoring them in the model.

On the right track here.  I might be on for the stew tonight after all :-)

73 - Mark N5OT



On 10/23/2021 8:16 AM, Haring family wrote:
I haven't used that program in a long time, but here are some comments which might be helpful:

1. 8-1/2" effective dia works fine.
2. Use full dia or 2" only. On top, use 2/3 of taper length at full diameter, and add the rest of the taper length to the 2" stinger. I believe for singers and cap loading you are supposed to use pretty big segments compared to the rest of the antenna.
3. Full dia for the base.
4. Build your model from ground - not from insulator/feed point.No taper or taper adjustment.
5. Are you cap loading with a beam or wires?
6. Presuming 80 meter band, are your 2 or 3 sets of guys Philly or steel? Insulated? I've included brackets and starts of guys before, when steel and connected to the tower. 7. In EZNEC, source placement can be annoying. Build the vert as 1 element and you have to watch the segmentation carefully to know where your source is. If you want to be sure, in EZ I'd make the model with a bottom stub of length to the insulator, and build the top part electrically connecting from there. You would feed at that junction as a split source (SI); I don't remember that sti didthat though. The only down-side: segmentation on both sides of the SI need to be the same length. 8. EZ 6.0 must use Mininec for that type of antenna, and I believe STI also uses MiniNec. You need to estimate reasonably accurately your effective ground loss for your radial field. Much less accurate than the rest of the model.

I responded to your other email first... definitely use fiberglass, not pvc or Teflon, for insulator up top.

regards, Dave N3AC

On Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 07:48 Mark - N5OT <r-emails@n5ot.com> wrote:

    Hey youall,

    I want to model Rohn 25G as a transmitting antenna.  Has anyone
    learned
    how to do that fairly accurately in K6STI's AO program? In
    addition to
    some length of regular straight sections, my tower has a factory 8'
    tapered top section which I would extend with a 2" stinger and a
    single-point pier base that is basically a 10 foot section with 3
    feet
    of taper to a flange added.  It appears to be "factory" although I
    have
    never seen one in person and it could be a one-off.

    1. How do I model these tapers?

    2. How do I model the tower itself?  Do I call it "10-inch diameter
    steel?"  Larger?  Smaller?

    3. Do I have to re-learn calculus?

    I would love to hear from anyone who has either done this or knows
    how
    it is done.

    Thanks in advance.

    73 - Mark N5OT
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