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Re: [TowerTalk] Modeling Rohn 25G in K6STI's AO

To: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Modeling Rohn 25G in K6STI's AO
From: Mark - N5OT <r-emails@n5ot.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 09:49:49 -0500
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Roger on all.

It is very hard to keep me off the air.  I know almost all the tricks.

But sooner or later I have to put up something more on the permanent side, where I feel like additional improvement is not worth the effort.  I am thinking "this may be the year."

Thank you for such excellent detail on the trap pros-and-cons. The trap idea may be such a challenge that putting up a separate 80 meter vertical may make more sense, plus add flexibility with regard to being on both bands concurrently (i.e. more along the lines of SO2R).

If I get anything up by tonight it won't have a trap in it  :-)

I have a bed of radials in place, so that's not a concern.  I just keep taking down and putting up radiators depending on multiple factors/du joir.

/N5OT is also the headquarters of:

Matching Networks R Us
House of Matching Networks
Matching Networks Unlimited

So whatever the radiator, I can make the transmitter happy and work people.  frankly I'll be more limited by what I can /hear /tonight, since I don't have my RX antennas up yet.
////
73 - Mark N5OT



On 10/23/2021 8:52 AM, Haring family wrote:
Mark,

I presume your tower is around 70'. Unless you have a lot of ground loss, your feed resistance should be pretty low... like around 15 ohms. On 160 of course, that's no big deal with a tuner. I aimed a friend across town toward using a 4:1 (50:12.5) Unun there, which seems to have worked well for him.

If you want the pre-Stew, you might just start without the trap... add that after the contest...

regards,

Dave N3AC

On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 9:47 AM Mark - N5OT <r-emails@n5ot.com> wrote:

    Thanks Dave.

    My old 40 meter elements all have big fiberglass rod insulators,
    so that
    is what will insulate the stinger.  We're on the right track.

    I appreciate all the detail in your email.  K6STI allows me to
    place a
    simple source at the bottom and leave it there.  I need to review
    how to
    add a lump capacitance at the base, since the resonant frequency
    will be
    little lower than the operating frequency.  I figure I can dial in
    the
    resonant frequency with a variable capacitor but the model will
    get me
    in the ballpark as far as the range of the capacitor I will be
    looking
    for in the junk box.

    The guy wires will all be insulated less than a foot out.  I'm
    ignoring
    them in the model.

    On the right track here.  I might be on for the stew tonight after
    all :-)

    73 - Mark N5OT



    On 10/23/2021 8:16 AM, Haring family wrote:
    > I haven't used that program in a long time, but here are some
    comments
    > which might be helpful:
    >
    > 1. 8-1/2" effective dia works fine.
    > 2. Use full dia or 2" only. On top, use 2/3 of taper length at full
    > diameter, and add the rest of the taper length to the 2" stinger. I
    > believe for singers and cap loading you are supposed to use
    pretty big
    > segments compared to the rest of the antenna.
    > 3. Full dia for the base.
    > 4. Build your model from ground - not from insulator/feed point.No
    > taper or taper adjustment.
    > 5. Are you cap loading with a beam or wires?
    > 6. Presuming 80 meter band, are your 2 or 3 sets of guys Philly or
    > steel? Insulated? I've included brackets and starts of guys before,
    > when steel and connected to the tower.
    > 7. In EZNEC, source placement can be annoying. Build the vert as 1
    > element and you have to watch the segmentation carefully to know
    where
    > your source is. If you want to be sure, in EZ I'd make the model
    with
    > a bottom stub of length to the insulator, and build the top part
    > electrically connecting from there. You would feed at that
    junction as
    > a split source (SI); I don't remember that sti didthat though. The
    > only down-side: segmentation on both sides of the SI need to be the
    > same length.
    > 8. EZ 6.0 must use Mininec for that type of antenna, and I
    believe STI
    > also uses MiniNec. You need to estimate reasonably accurately your
    > effective ground loss for your radial field. Much less accurate
    than
    > the rest of the model.
    >
    > I responded to your other email first... definitely use fiberglass,
    > not pvc or Teflon, for insulator up top.
    >
    > regards, Dave N3AC
    >
    > On Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 07:48 Mark - N5OT <r-emails@n5ot.com> wrote:
    >
    >     Hey youall,
    >
    >     I want to model Rohn 25G as a transmitting antenna. Has anyone
    >     learned
    >     how to do that fairly accurately in K6STI's AO program? In
    >     addition to
    >     some length of regular straight sections, my tower has a
    factory 8'
    >     tapered top section which I would extend with a 2" stinger and a
    >     single-point pier base that is basically a 10 foot section
    with 3
    >     feet
    >     of taper to a flange added.  It appears to be "factory"
    although I
    >     have
    >     never seen one in person and it could be a one-off.
    >
    >     1. How do I model these tapers?
    >
    >     2. How do I model the tower itself?  Do I call it "10-inch
    diameter
    >     steel?"  Larger?  Smaller?
    >
    >     3. Do I have to re-learn calculus?
    >
    >     I would love to hear from anyone who has either done this or
    knows
    >     how
    >     it is done.
    >
    >     Thanks in advance.
    >
    >     73 - Mark N5OT
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