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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

To: Mark K3MSB <>,
Subject: Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65
From: "" <>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 16:47:21 -0400
List-post: <">>
Very well said Mark, thank you.

Brian K8BHZ

On 5/21/2017 4:29 PM, Mark K3MSB wrote:

The issue is not one of any mode being more "valid" that the other, nor is it one of a QSO being "valid" or "invalid" based upon the mode. If a two way exchange is completed between two legally licensed amateur stations using lawfully authorized modes, the QSO is valid. I think it's that simple.

But that's not what I had brought up in my post of several days ago. The issue I brought up is that of a level playing field for competition / award purposes.

Modes that require a computer to effect a QSO should be in a different category than modes that do not. By "require" I do not mean "make easier", but rather could not be accomplished without a computer. My ICOM makes a QSO easier than my ARC-5s, but both still need a human's skill to complete the QSO. Stated alternately, modes that requires a human skill should be categorized differently than those that do not -- and by human skill I do not mean downloading software and pushing buttons. As someone pointed out, the DXCC rules are not part of the 10 commandments. It is my opinion that technology has reached a new level in which the rules need to be changed to accommodate that level.

The same is true of remote operations. I can whip out my credit card and use a station on the west coat and get my 5 remaining zones on 80 to complete my 5BWAZ. I will not do that as I feel it is unsportsmanlike to do so. Are the QSOs legal as per the rules? Yes (unless CQ has changed them recently). But, to my way of thinking, the journey is an important part of getting to the destination.

This issue is not about validating someone's worth as a "real amateur" (no code, know code, extra light etc), but rather recognizing that human skill in achieving a goal should be treated differently than letting a computer alone achieve the same goal that requires no such skill.

There is nothing wrong with the JT modes; they are a wonderful advancement in communications technology in the spirit of the advancement of amateur radio. But in the light of competition based upon human striving and skill, they are in a different category. They are not good or bad, they are not valid or invalid; they are just different. Technology has moved on to the point where the existing rules need to be changed.

Mark K3MSB

On May 21, 2017 6:20 AM, "Mike va3mw" < <>> wrote:

    Glenn nailed it.

    If you don't like it, don't use it.   No one is forcing anyone to

    It is really that simple.

    Mike va3mw

    > On May 21, 2017, at 6:09 AM, Glenn Wyant <
    <>> wrote:
    > If an amateur has interest in  psk, jt65 etc or EME, cw or any band
    > or mode; it is not for us to judge his particular interests.
    > VA3DX
    > ----- Original Message ----- From: <
    > To: < <>>
    > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 11:47 PM
    > Subject: Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65
    >> Promised myself I'd stay out of this, but it's getting
    ridiculous....Comments like "I worked 20 new ones on 160, and I
    never heard any of them!". Wow! That's amazing...I personally
    can't find any satisfaction in claiming a contact I never heard. I
    never have...Yes, the digi modes allow easier qso's that would
    never have been made, but let's face it, you never made those
    contacts, your computer & it's software did. Any resulting
    "Awards" should be made out to your computer. Meteor scatter used
    to be very popular, actually getting to hear the excited voices of
    those you worked was thrilling. One m/s qso of mine was with a yl
    from the Carolinas with a most delightful Southern accent...hard
    to duplicate with digi modes. I don't know anyone who works or
    talks about rocks challenge. Same with eme, which I
    pulled the plug on when it was no longer a challenge. How many new
    eme operators have heard their own voices coming back from the
    moon?  I migrated to TopBand as
     one of the last real challenges left....
    >> I find the litany of excuses about why one has to go to digital
    means on 160 to be feeble at best." My rig can't cut it, I don't
    have the antennas, I can't copy code (one of the real elephants in
    the room!), my location isn't on the coast where it's easy, etc,
    etc". There are MANY dxers operating successfully on small lots,
    and there are a myriad of clever, small receiving antennas out
    there. How about the gentleman on the left coast who worked DXCC
    on 160 from his mobile!! (without digital modes).
    >> My TopBand rig is quite modest, no towers or rotors. The TX
    antennas are wires hanging from trees with no more than 50'
    vertical rise. The 16 radials under each are only 48' long.
    Desperately needing a new rig, I bought the very cheapest HF
    transceiver on the market (no DSP, keyer, antenna tuner, etc). My
    location in Upper Michigan is not near either coast for "easy" dx,
    but is unfortunately close to the auroral oval. My amp was a
    non-working "gift" that doesn't run full power. However, I have
    233 countries & 37 zones confirmed on 160. I have personally HEARD
    every qso made & have decoded them as necessary, in my HEAD. I
    don't spot myself or arrange skeds....I don't have a computer in
    the shack.
    >> If ham radio was to go all digital, I would walk away from
    it....Not because I'm a curmudgeon, but simply because the
    challenge and resulting thrills would be gone.
    >> Lest you think I am a ignorant technophobe, I am a degreed
    electrical engineer and have been a ham for over 60 years. I have
    a fine computer & am on it actively every day....but I never
    pretend that it's ham radio.
    >> I realize from the comment below that it's rather boring to
    work digi modes, but I suspect that help is on the way....I am
    truly surprised that no one has produced an "app" that will take
    the remaining work out of it. You would simply download the app,
    check the appropriate boxes (DXCC, WAS, WAZ), select the desired
    bands, and turn it loose 24 hours a day. It would make all the
    contacts for you (with similar robo-stations) and send you a text
    or email when it's through. Heck, it could even apply for your
    desired awards, and then wake up your printer to print your award
    certificate out! It would then send another message to pick up
    your award....How truly exciting that would be.
    >> Brian K8BHZ
    >> 2017 12:39 AM, DXer wrote:
    >>> >>>To me, just not the challenge of dxing mostly cw and ssb.
    >>> Fair enough. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
    >>> Another angle. I find JT65 to be a very relaxing mode. Which
    other mode allows one to read and write emails, go get a coffee,
    answer 'nature's call', etc. while making contacts? Timing is
    important, but doable. :^)
    >>> 73 de Vince, VA3VF
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