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Re: [TowerTalk] Site Elevation and TOA

To: Cqtestk4xs@aol.com, TOWERTALK@contesting.com, w9ac@arrl.net
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Site Elevation and TOA
From: Grant Saviers <grants2@pacbell.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 23:29:00 -0700
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Dean gave an HFTA talk at Seaside last week and I asked this question. "How far away do I not need to worry about a mountain?" His answer: "over the horizon". He showed some patterns much further out than 14000 feet. To get those he changed the DEM baseline steps to 100m from the default 30m. The ray tracing matrix is of fixed size, 150x150 as I recall, so a coarser horizontal step is needed to calculate to further distances. A limitation of a program written in Fortran for a mainframe with less memory than your watch.

OTOH, my 15 mile away mountain range is about 3 deg above horizon, so while a purist might calculate the pattern, I think it is not consequential (hopefully).

One of the antenna books, I don't recall which, shows an example of a DX station with a far mountain that significantly affects the pattern.

Grant KZ1W


On 6/17/2014 3:29 PM, Bill via TowerTalk wrote:
According to N6BV, who knows his stuff... Beyond approximately14000 feet has very little effect on the TOA for HF.
Close in is far more important.  You can test this by making  up a file with
hypothetical elevations and putting it into N6BV's  program
Bill K4XS

In a message dated 6/17/2014 9:47:04 P.M. Coordinated Universal Time,
w9ac@arrl.net writes:

I'm  trying to locate land in south GA for a remote Internet station.  Two
self-supporting towers are ready for installation.  Tower #1 is 140 ft  and
Tower #2 is 100 ft.  A full-size, 4L 40m monoband Yagi goes on the  top of
tower #1.  A 30m-10m LPDA goes on tower #2.  Siting has  become a lot harder
than I imagined.  Here are my siting  constraints:

1) Low noise in the immediate area;
2) Easy utility  power access;
3) High speed data access over FTTH or CATV.  No DSL  unless I really get
desperate.  Too many future applications will need  the extra throughput;
4) High land that either remains flat for the TOA  distance or slopes
downward.
5) Land that fits within the project  budget.

Sounds easy. Way harder than you think -- unless a home goes up  on the
property and I move there where I have more options due to the higher  price of
properties.  Moreover, many counties won't allow a telecom  shelter or
other structure as a primary use without first establishing a  residence through
placement a house or manufactured home.  I don't want  that.  I want a
remote site only.  My main focus is Brantley County,  GA.  There's no zoning in
the county.  There's also super-high-speed  fiber supplied to the entire
rural county by the local telco.  The telco  bet big and lost when they assumed
a housing market explosion in 2005 that  turned into an implosion.  Along
the county highways are dozens of  started subdivisions that are now ghost
towns.  Cheap land, but the  developers recorded much of it early on with deed
restrictions.  Once  just a few owners take possession, changing the
covenants is a  nightmare.  It's one thing to take up the cause when you already
own the  land.  It
's insane to consider restricted land when you're looking to  buy from the
start.

After looking at dozens of parcels,  I've found a few that might work.
Here's my question: In terms of  wavelength, at what distance is the TOA set
for elevated, horizontal  antennas?  I realize that the TOA is composed of
near, intermediate and  far fields above elevation, but there must be a
distance where say...90% of  the predicted TOA occurs.  What is that distance in
wavelengths from the  antenna?

Paul,  W9AC
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