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Re: [TowerTalk] F12 C19XR Rivets

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] F12 C19XR Rivets
From: "Roger (K8RI) on TT" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 01:57:59 -0500
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Al doesn't rust but it easily corrodes like crazy. See water in coax. Anodized Al is corrosion resistant, but still subject to abrasion from particles from the road and that abraded part is subject to corrosion. Just look at the surface change of the bright and shiny. Generally a glue, or epoxy can be removed by heating no where near the point of changing the temper.

As to engineers, I retired as project manager, riding herd on teams. There is a fine line between focused and tunnel vision. Engineers generally start with the details and work up. Project managers generally start with a holistic (overall) view and work down to the details. I've heard riding herd on Engineers compared to herding cats,

As to just following the MFG directions...
Although Antennas should be a mature science, many commercial antennas do have weaknesses, whether mechanical, electrical, or both. Antenna manufacturers for the mass market have the same constraints any other business. They must make a profit in a competitive field. That means the mechanics/Mechanical engineers must take into account of every part and engineer the antenna in a manner to keep costs down, So the end result may need a bit of work.

As I've said before, we know Riveting, screws, cross bolts, and split ends with hose clamps work. Each has strengths, but like split ends are often misapplied. Use the proper size hose clamp for the size of tube, they are very effective, if rather crude looking. Rivetind and screws near the end of the outer tube introduce weaknesses and with the element ends, it doesn't take much. Hy-Gain antennas were losing tips, or making noise. A poly rope dampener inserted into the element ends and held bu the end cap was very effective in reducing, or eliminating the problem

The point is that many antennas fir the mass market  a oroblem or two

73

Roger  (K8RI)

On 3/12/2016 Saturday 12:56 PM, Jim Thomson wrote:
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 10:53:02 -0600
From: Kevin Stover <kevin.stover@mediacombb.net>
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] F12 C19XR Rivets

###  back in the mid 80s...Alcan here in canada, devised a method to weld 
aluminum...
as in super thin stuff.....including aluminum foil used by your wife in the 
kitchen.
The idea at time was to   use the new process.... for aluminum car bodies.
Obviously u wouldn’t want to pop rivet cars bodies together.   They had it all
down to a fine art.   When US steel  found out about the proposed aluminum
car body manufacturing method, they went beserko, and the politicians
quickly finished off the  idea....never to be mentioned again.   Rust
doesnt sleep..and aluminum doesn’t rust.

##  On a side note,   I asked the local mobile aluminum welding guy here in town
about coming here to weld some thicker wall  boom material and other items for 
me,
like channel al  etc.   He told me that IF  you don’t require any kind of 
electrical connection,
a special kind of glue can be used.... that is one helluva lot strong than any 
welding process.
‘Only god can get it apart’  he tells me.   They now glue  motor bike frames  
with it..and also bicycle
frames etc.   It works too,  but  no electrical connection, and it cant be 
taken apart, has to
be cut off.   Ironicly, its being used on exotic al car bodies.

##    On my f12  40m boom, they weld every 120 degs.... where the boom drops  
from
3 inch od...down to 2.5 inch OD.    A short length  of  2.5 inch OD is sid over 
the end of the
2.5 inch tube.... then  welded every 120 degs.     So u end up with a stepped 
reduction,
and the boom drops from 3 inch  to 2.5 inch.   No taper used.   Then  1/4-20  
SS bolts
and  SS nylocks used to bolts the 3 inch and 2.5 inch booms  together.   Where 
the bolts
pass through.... it’s a total of .375 inch thick material.

##  Somebody actually makes  tapered   aluminum tubing.  I saw it on the other 
side of town,
used for marine applications.   Perfect taper from 2 inch...down to .5 
inch......and overall  length
was aprx 20 ft.   Then a  2nd  tapered  piece, but bigger OD   at each end, was 
used to splice
to  smaller stuff.   So the entire  marine vertical was  just 2 pieces.   So it 
can be done.
They can also taper  the wall thickness..from  thicker at the big end..to 
thinner at the smaller  OD end.
Dunno who makes it nor the process used.

Jim   VE7RF





Someone would surely have to do a full on metallurgical analysis to be
happy with the resulting Yagi.

I have read every post of this discussion (God help me) and have noticed
a couple things.
Some of the folks in this discussion really, really, need to get a hobby.
My uncle, a former Collins engineer with an EE PhD told me once that the
first class all prospective engineers should be required to take is when
to and when not to "engineer".

I may be wrong but I thought I saw a recommendation to weld the tubing
joints?
I'd be willing to say the vast majority of members on this list, with a
few exceptions to be sure, have neither the necessary skill or equipment
to pull that off without blowing big holes in the aluminum and spending
a lot of money fixing stuff they "created". If done correctly it would
result in a joint that will never come apart, ever.

Just build the antenna the way the manufacturer intended and enjoy using
it, simple.


   I guess if one really wanted to be picky, the ultimate solution would
be to invent a device that could extrude tubing on site with a built-in
taper.
No joints! You could build your yagis the same way eavestroughers
manufacture seamless gutters on site. With enough adjust ability to the
extruder, you could even manufacture one-piece booms.

73, Kelly, ve4xt

PS: the on-site extruder was a joke. Please, no comments on whether the
metallurgy is sound! Sent from my iPad



--

73

Roger (K8RI)


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