CQ-Contest
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting

To: Edward Sawyer <EdwardS@sbelectronics.com>, "cq-contest@contesting.com" <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting
From: ku8e <ku8e@ku8e.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 16:16:57 -0400
List-post: <mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
EdThere isn't a category for SB assisted so he would need to submit his score 
as SOAB Assisted. So I guess all those guys who post their scores on 3830 as 
single band assisted have them reclassified as SOAB Assisted. N2IC pointed out 
to me a rule that I missed in the General ARRL Rules that say you can't use non 
radio assistance to solicit contacts. I guess it's up to the people at the ARRL 
contest desk to determine if running a live stream constitutes soliciting 
contacts like calling someone on the phone or using Facebook to arrange QSO'S. 
JeffSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Edward Sawyer 
<EdwardS@sbelectronics.com> Date: 3/12/20  3:18 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Jeff Clarke 
<ku8e@ku8e.com>, cq-contest@contesting.com Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] Merging 
Social Media and Contesting Jeff.  I agree with you that the ARRL rules leave a 
lot of gap.  And if Ray enters as 20M SB Assisted, he probably has an argument. 
 However if he enters unassisted, he is in clear violation of "using the 
internet" which is not allowed for any active part of the QSO or finding 
process.  CQ WW and CQ WPX additionally have Conduct rules defining soliciting 
contacts through non-amateur means.  I don't think even the assisted class 
would allow what Ray was doing.But the Contest sponsors should speak up on this 
issue.Ed  N1UR________________________________________From: CQ-Contest 
[cq-contest-bounces+edwards=sbelectronics.com@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jeff 
Clarke [ku8e@ku8e.com]Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 1:36 PMTo: 
cq-contest@contesting.comSubject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and 
ContestingI think in the future contest sponsors need to define exactly 
whatassisted means in their contest since the way the rules are 
sometimeswritten they can be ambiguous.For Example :*CQWW Rules for SO but 
allowed for SOA :*/*QSO finding assistance*//: The use of any technology or 
other sourcethat provides call sign or multiplier identification of a signal to 
theoperator. This includes, but is not limited to, use of a CW decoder, 
DXcluster, DX spotting web sites (e.g., DX Summit), local or remote callsign 
and frequency decoding technology (e.g., CW Skimmer or ReverseBeacon Network), 
or operating arrangements involving other individuals.//Self-spotting or asking 
to be spotted is not permitted. (not allowedfor SOA either)/*ARRL Rules :*/3.2. 
Single Operator Unlimited://////The use of spotting assistance or automated, 
multi-channel decoders ispermitted.//////2.2.1. Use of spotting assistance or 
nets (operating arrangementsinvolving other individuals, DX-alerting nets, 
packet, multi-channeldecoders such as CW Skimmer, etc) not physically located 
at the stationis permitted. (Exception: spotting information obtained from any 
sourceoutside the station boundary via a closed or dedicated communicationlink 
may not be used.)////////3.3.3. Single Band entries are NOT permitted to use 
spottingassistance. Use of spotting assistance will cause the entry to 
bereclassified to the Single Operator Unlimited, High Power category./I think 
the CQWW rules are much clearer than the ARRL's.  In fact theARRL DX rules 
makes no mention of self-spotting. Also note neithermention live streaming. I'm 
sure Ray, W2RE is a good guy and he wasn'tintending on cheating or gaining some 
type of competitive advantage.He's been contesting a long time and given much 
back to the contestingcommunity with his tower company and RHR. I think most 
active contestersknow who the habitual cheaters are and he isn't one of 
them.W2RE posted his score as SB 20 meters. If he submits his entry as 
SOassisted based on the rules I quoted above he should have no problemsbecause 
he didn't break any rules for an ARRL sponsored contest. Contestsponsors also 
need to determine if running a live stream is consideredto be self-spotting and 
update their rules for next time. (CQWW Rules)I wish you guys wouldn't pile on 
and accuse W2RE of cheating because hedidn't. Read the ARRL DX rules. 
http://www.arrl.org/arrl-dxJeff KU8EOn 3/12/2020 11:30 AM, 
donovanf@starpower.net wrote:> I'm surprised at Randy's comment that " it is 
impossible to measure the impact or harm">>> Unique QSOs in the W2RE log will 
provide a measure of the impact>>> 73> Frank> W3LPL>>> ----- Original Message 
----->> From: k5zd@charter.net> To: "Edward Sawyer" 
<EdwardS@sbelectronics.com>, cq-contest@contesting.com> Sent: Thursday, March 
12, 2020 3:12:10 PM> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and 
Contesting>> I am in favor of big stations and remote operations. Live 
streaming so> others can hear what it sounds like is also good. Promoting ham 
radio and> contesting using social media is great (and needed)!>> I share the 
concerns about when the live PR effort bleeds into soliciting> activity for the 
station doing this. The rules are fairly clear that use> of non-amateur means 
to solicit contacts is prohibited (written back when> people would use the 
telephone to get multipliers on the air).>> In this case, it is impossible to 
measure the impact or harm. I.e., we> don't know how much it helped the score 
or if it would have changed the> order of finish. Even so, the rules are the 
rules. It will be up to the> sponsor to decide where they want to draw the line 
for their contest.>> Randy K5ZD>>> -----Original Message-----> From: CQ-Contest 
<cq-contest-bounces+k5zd=charter.net@contesting.com> On> Behalf Of Edward 
Sawyer> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 8:56 PM> To: peter.voelpel@t-online.de; 
cq-contest@contesting.com> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and 
Contesting>> IF you watch the video, you will see broadcasting of frequency on 
the> sidebar chats being displayed - self spotting. Using a chat room. And by> 
asking people on line to share the feed with their friends and get on and> work 
him - he is soliciting contacts by non-amateur means.>> Ed N1UR>>> From: Peter 
Voelpel [peter.voelpel@t-online.de] On Behalf Of> dj7ww@t-online.de 
[dj7ww@t-online.de]> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 8:24 PM> To: Edward 
Sawyer; cq-contest@contesting.com> Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social 
Media and Contesting>> Ed,>> what numerous rules violations do you have in 
mind?> So far I am not aware of any.>> 73> Peter>> -----Original Message-----> 
From: CQ-Contest> [mailto:cq-contest-bounces+dj7ww=t-online.de@contesting.com] 
On Behalf Of> Edward Sawyer>> I would suggest that anyone curious take a listen 
to the live stream> recording on YouTube and look at the interaction Ray has 
with the "live chat> room" on his website with the contacts being made.>> 
Asking people to look for him on the Cluster to see where he is.>> Even as an 
assisted operation, it demonstrates numerous rules violations as> recorded.>> 
_______________________________________________> CQ-Contest mailing list> 
CQ-Contest@contesting.com> 
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest>> 
_______________________________________________> CQ-Contest mailing list> 
CQ-Contest@contesting.com> 
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest>> 
_______________________________________________> CQ-Contest mailing list> 
CQ-Contest@contesting.com> 
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest--This email has been 
checked for viruses by Avast antivirus 
software.https://www.avast.com/antivirus_______________________________________________CQ-Contest
 mailing 
listCQ-Contest@contesting.comhttp://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
_______________________________________________
CQ-Contest mailing list
CQ-Contest@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>