In all my years of running companies, including my own,
I have never amortized R&D, it is always expensed. On very rare occasion do
you amortize R&D. Ask the boys at World Com!! You will find out why.
George, W6GF
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 10, 2014, at 7:19 AM, "R. Eric Sluder via TenTec"
> <tentec@contesting.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 10, 2014, at 8:20 AM, "Bob McGraw - K4TAX" <RMcGraw@Blomand.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Rick et al;
>>
>> Your comments are very appropriate. Yes, merge my comments and
>> observations with yours.
>>
>> Last evening with the two radios sitting in front of me, I quickly created
>> the list. There is a lot more that could have been added. From my take,
>> numbers are numbers, and the real proof of the pie is actual on the air
>> usage in a given location and specific circumstances. In many cases today
>> one will actually need two or more radios on the desk to make a real and
>> valid evaluation. To this end, the Tentec 30 day trial period does exactly
>> this and this is something no other company provides.
>>
>> Rob has done an outstanding job of measuring and presenting results of many
>> receiver brands and models. He is to be highly commended for his excellent
>> work. I do caution, those looking to his Receiver Test Data, should
>> understand exactly what is being presented. Just because the particular
>> brand and model is at the top of the list or any ranking for that matter,
>> does not make it "the best" or better than another one on the list. I have
>> downloaded the list to EXCEL and thus I can sort on any parameter. When
>> this is done one will find other brands and models appear at the top of the
>> list. I find there is no receiver on the list that consistently appears at
>> or near the top with any relevance of sort routine.
>>
>> There are other factors which I view that make for a "good receiver". I
>> personally place a lot of weight on receive audio quality. To that I do
>> include the internal speaker, what ever it may be. One point I will not
>> accept is poor audio quality for it makes not only inferior sound but for
>> extended listening it is very fatiguing. To support this point, I recently
>> loaned my Eagle to a close friend. While it was on his desk, his wife
>> commented; "that little radio sounds much better than the ones you have". He
>> has other brands and models, some much more expensive than the Eagle, pre or
>> post sale promotion prices. From my take, the best receiver performance
>> but with poor or inadequate audio is a lousy receiver. Thus I say what good
>> is all the advanced electronics ahead of the audio chain? In speaking of
>> "chain" ---- the strength of a chain is defined by its weakest link. A poor
>> audio system makes for a poor receiver.
>>
>> Tentec has always been known for good quality audio both on TX and RX. With
>> this and other good quality attributes, their on air performance usually is
>> equal to or is better than most other brands or models.
>>
>> Clearly the difference between the Omni VII and the Eagle are quite notable.
>> I find it necessary to use slightly different operating techniques with the
>> two radios in order to attain optimum results with each one. Thus I've
>> always said, don't operate a Tentec radio like others one may have or use.
>> They are distinctly unique and different.
>>
>> ***************
>> As to the background pertaining to the current sales promotion, I can
>> speculate on this just like many others have done. One point I've not seen
>> advanced in these discussions is one I've not expressed but will do so.
>>
>> Perhaps with the age of the Omni VII and the Eagle and the technology in the
>> Argonaut VI, like most companies, Tentec has realized and amortized their R
>> & D costs for these products. Once R & D is amortized, those costs are
>> usually no longer included in the cost of the manufactured product.
>> Therefore the costs have gone down and the new reduced cost basis can be
>> then factored to retail price. It is this new price that is not being used
>> to sell the products.
>>
>> As a case and point, about 5 years ago we purchased a 42" Sony HD LED TV for
>> about $2200. Last year a lightning strike destroyed that TV. It was
>> replaced with a 48" Sony HD LED TV for about $899.
>>
>> ****************
>>
>>
>> 73
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP" <Rick@DJ0IP.de>
>> To: "'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'" <tentec@contesting.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 2:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Reasons to buy an OM7 instead of an Eagle
>>
>>
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> That was good stuff.
>>> If I find the time, I will try to merge both our lists into one.
>>> I just now noticed, the OM7 announced in 2004, not 2007, so it has been 10
>>> years since I have used or even seen an OM7.
>>>
>>> I would like to say a few words about receiver performance now, showing ON
>>> THE AIR TESTS made on the OM7.
>>>
>>> Rob Sherwood's list shows measured lab numbers and Rob shares with us his
>>> opinion of what is required by most people in order to have a good enough
>>> receiver. What few people have picked up on is that he has raised the
>>> numbers by 5%. He is now saying 75dB BDR3 for SSB and 85dB for CW. This is
>>> slightly higher than what the OM7 can achieve (on CW) but lower than the
>>> Eagle.
>>>
>>> NEVER-THE-LESS, those are just numbers, meaningless to most of us hams.
>>> So what real world difference does it make?
>>>
>>> Perhaps I am the only person who ever tested and 'documented' this in a real
>>> world environment that showed a distinct difference. In reality, 99.9% of
>>> us will never have that environment AND that specific environment can no
>>> longer be reproduced.
>>> However, I do want to point out that at that time, there was indeed a very
>>> distinct advantage in favor of the radio with the highest BDR3.
>>>
>>> In 2004, a couple of weeks before the OMNI VII announced, I conducted a
>>> transceiver test (I think I called it "intermod shootout") at one of our
>>> contest sites. The test was conducted on 40m on a Friday evening, but no
>>> big contest was running. However this was BEFORE the shortwave broadcast
>>> stations had moved outside of the ham band, so the total amount of voltage
>>> hitting a receiver's front end (here in Europe) was tremendous! Tremendous
>>> because I was using a 3 element 40m Yagi at 105 ft. height. This
>>> environment can never be repeated because the broadcast stations are gone
>>> now.
>>>
>>> In addition, rotating the beam made a big difference in the amount of
>>> intermodulation generated by the receivers and the direction
>>> North/North-East was the worst. I left the beam in that direction, then
>>> compared several transceivers.
>>> At that time, the "Meister" was the Orion (1). There was no Eagle or O2
>>> yet.
>>>
>>> The (sometimes significant) difference between all 7 transceivers tested was
>>> recorded in a video (for each radio) showing the S-Meter and recording the
>>> accompanying sound. You can see and hear the difference in these videos.
>>> These results have been posted on the Bavarian Contest Club web site for
>>> more than 10 years now.
>>>
>>> Lots of people speculate about all kinds of things including receiver
>>> performance and Ten-Tec going out of business.
>>> I haven't figured out a way to benchmark TT going out of business, but I do
>>> know how to test receivers in a real world environment, and when I test
>>> stuff, I post it to the Internet for everyone to see and hear.
>>>
>>> In today's environment, the only way to approximate this type of challenging
>>> band condx is to operate in the middle of a very BIG contest, such as CQWW
>>> DX contest, especially in CW! AND, as I stated earlier, when operating,
>>> don't skip over the messy pile-ups, jump in and work the station on that
>>> frequency. THAT'S WHERE THE DIFFERENCE IS!
>>>
>>> I've posted this link several times before but I'll post it again.
>>> Here's the LINK:
>>> http://www.bavarian-contest-club.de/reviews/Transceiver-intermod-shootout-on
>>> -40M-in-europe-;art32,565
>>> Look under "RESULTS" to find clickable links to the video files.
>>>
>>> (NOTE: most likely the link will be broken by the reflector. Copy it -both
>>> lines of it, together- and paste it into your browser).
>>>
>>> Two comments: first, I am indeed the world's worst photographer, which is
>>> evident from these videos, but the message does come through. Second, in
>>> the excitement, I sometimes unknowingly switched to speaking German instead
>>> of English. That's because the station owner who is German was testing with
>>> me and he was commenting to me in German, causing my brain to switch from
>>> 7-bit to 8-bit ASCII. I guess there was a sticky bit! (hi)
>>>
>>> THE BOTTOM LINE:
>>> Receiver performance is a highly misunderstood subject, partly because we
>>> each have our own definition of what our needs are. It is impossible to
>>> make a list ranking true receiver performance and reflect the true
>>> performance of each radio. Rob is the first person to tell us that in all of
>>> his presentations. He tells us of the many other important things, first
>>> and foremost, "you have to enjoy using the radio". THIS IS MORE IMPORTANT
>>> THAN ANY LIST, and the only person on the planet that can determine that is
>>> YOU.
>>>
>>> Rob's list shows the radios ranked by BDR3, nothing more.
>>> It may be used as one of many selection criterion but it certainly is not
>>> the most decisive one.
>>>
>>> The biggest difference between the Eagle and the OM7 is in the ergonomics of
>>> the radios.
>>> How you use them and navigate the menus is VERY different.
>>> Many people will not like the Eagle. I love it.
>>> Some may not like the OM7 because it doesn't have separate AF/RF gain
>>> controls and because it's Panadaptor is not very good. Other than that, my
>>> guess is that most people will be more comfortable operating to OM7.
>>>
>>> But if you are a serious contester, take the Eagle (unless you absolutely
>>> need OmniRig support).
>>>
>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw
>>> - K4TAX
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 3:20 AM
>>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Reasons to buy an OM7 instead of an Eagle
>>>
>>> Well Rick as you know, I have both on the desk.
>>>
>>> The Eagle receiver is somewhat better. How much well with the optional
>>> filters in the Omni VII and both used for CW, I perceive one would find it
>>> necessary to have both radios and the ability to switch between the two to
>>> discern much if any difference. Sherwood Engineering has the Eagle Dynamic
>>> range Narrow spaced measured at 90 dB while the Omni VII is measured at 80
>>> dB. Rob also stated that most hams will find the 80 dB performance most
>>> adequate.
>>>
>>> However, per Sherwood Engineering Receiver report, the Noise floor on the
>>> Omni VII is -130 & -140 dBm while the noise floor on the Eagle is -124 &
>>> -132 dBm.
>>>
>>> The display on the Omni VII is much easier to see and read plus it gives
>>> more information and one can see the S meter {Rick}.
>>>
>>> The S meter on the Omni VII goes to 60 dB over S-9 while the S meter on the
>>> Eagle goes to 30 dB over S-9.
>>>
>>> The S meter on the Eagle shows only signal strength and SWR. The S meter on
>>> the Omni VII shows signal strength and is user selectable between PWR out
>>> and SWR.
>>>
>>> The Eagle has dual concentric knobs for AF gain and RF gain and another set
>>> for PBT and BW. The Omni VII has one knob that has a momentary push in to
>>> toggle between the two functions.
>>>
>>> The Omni VII had separate RIT and XIT buttons and displays. The Eagle had
>>> only a RIT function which is difficult to read the value on the display.
>>>
>>> The Omni VII has a CW spot function. The Eagle does not.
>>>
>>> The Eagle has a hardware Noise Blanker. The Omni VII has a firmware Noise
>>> Blanker.
>>>
>>> The Eagle DSP BW works nicely down to 100 Hz while the Omni VII DSP BW only
>>> goes to 200 Hz. For both radios, any optional filters automatically switch
>>> in the RX path as the respective BW is selected.
>>>
>>> The Omni VII RX BW is adjustable up to 12 KHz standard. The Eagle BW
>>> adjustable up to the widest roofing filter installed.
>>>
>>> The MENU on the Omni VII is accessed by a MENU button on the front panel.
>>> The Eagle Config Menu must start with the power off, hold down FNC and then
>>> turn power on.
>>>
>>> The KEY jack on the Omni VII is on the front and is a 1/4" TRS connector.
>>> The KEY jack on the Eagle is on the rear and is a 1/8" TRS connector.
>>>
>>> The EXT SPKR jack on the Omni VII is on the rear and is a 1/4" TR connector.
>>>
>>> The EXT SPKR jack on the Eagle is on the rear and is a 1/8" T R connector.
>>>
>>> The Omni VII has a dedicated button for TUNE and PWR while the Eagle one
>>> must use the FNC before accessing the PWR function.
>>>
>>> The Eagle is controlled externally via USB communications port. The Omni
>>> VII is controlled externally by a RS-232 port.
>>>
>>> The Omni VII has a direct internet connection. The Eagle does not offer
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> The Omni VII offers two ANT port plus a separate RX ANT port. The Eagle
>>> only offers a single ANT port.
>>>
>>> The Omni VII offers direct frequency entry. The Eagle does not have direct
>>> frequency entry.
>>>
>>> The Omni VII can switch direct to any band with the push of a button. The
>>> Eagle must cycle through several bands to get to the others.
>>>
>>> The ATU is much faster to resolve a match with the Omni VII. The Eagle
>>> takes a bit longer to resolve a match. Both radios ATU will match a 10:1 SWR
>>> or better.
>>>
>>> The Eagle is about 1/4 the size of the Omni VII
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I could do three or four pages of this stuff. How much more do you want or
>>>
>>> need? Best bet, just download both manuals from the Tentec website and
>>> read them.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP" <Rick@DJ0IP.de>
>>> To: "'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'" <tentec@contesting.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 4:10 PM
>>> Subject: [TenTec] Reasons to buy an OM7 instead of an Eagle
>>>
>>>
>>>> I was just asked off list for reasons to warrant spending the extra bread
>>>> on
>>>> an OM7 instead of an Eagle.
>>>> Ha! I had to bite my tongue to keep from saying "none, there aren't any!"
>>>> (hi)
>>>>
>>>> There are of course 2 or 3 minor reasons and I've created my list below.
>>>> Perhaps someone else more familiar with the OM7 than I am can think of
>>>> other
>>>> reasons that I have forgotten.
>>>> Grateful to any additional tips.
>>>>
>>>> (and to the OM who asked me this question, if you do not subscribe to the
>>>> tentec group at contesting.com, send me another email and I will forward
>>>> you
>>>> any replies we get).
>>>> ==========================================================
>>>>
>>>> Hi OM, (name withheld)
>>>>
>>>> You do realize of course that you have posed that question to a man in
>>>> love
>>>> with his Eagle! (hi)
>>>> OK, but I will try and be objective on this.
>>>>
>>>> The Eagle's better receiver is really only noticeable in BIG contests
>>>> where
>>>> a good operator is willing to dive into the middle of the heaviest pile-up
>>>> on the band to work whatever DX multiplier is under all the rumble. Apart
>>>> from that, there is not a lot of difference in the two receivers. However
>>>> when the going gets tough, the Eagle will outshine the Omni 7.
>>>>
>>>> I'll start with the only other negative of the OM7 over the Eagle: it has
>>>> only one knob for AF and RF gain. Not the end of the world but separate
>>>> knobs would have been better.
>>>>
>>>> And of course if you go backpacking, I'd rather carry an Eagle! (hi)
>>>> Same applies for mobile operations.
>>>>
>>>> Now here is my short list of features the OM7 has which the Eagle does
>>>> not:
>>>>
>>>> . A larger read out, including an S-Meter that you can actually see and
>>>> read
>>>>
>>>> . Better interfacing to old amplifiers (or new Ameritron amplifiers) in CW
>>>> mode. The OM7 has adjustable hang delay on the tail end of the signal.
>>>> The
>>>> Eagle does not have this feature and if you have one of these amps, you
>>>> absolutely need it. With the Eagle, you must purchase the Model 318 Amp
>>>> Keyer for a hundred bucks.
>>>>
>>>> . Interfacing to Ten-Tec full QSK amplifiers (dual-cable keying). The
>>>> Eagle
>>>> does not have this. If you don't have a full QSK linear with this keying
>>>> loop circuitry, it doesn't matter.
>>>>
>>>> . A band scope (though it's not the greatest)
>>>>
>>>> . Larger heat sink on the back side for cooling the final transistors.
>>>> You
>>>> really do not need a fan unless you are running RTTY. The Eagle doesn't
>>>> have this so it must rely on a fan. It is not terribly loud but it is
>>>> audible.
>>>>
>>>> . Direct frequency entry keypad
>>>>
>>>> . Curtis mode A and B keying. It's fixed on the Eagle, but I have no idea
>>>> which one. Somehow I never paid any attention to that stuff. I just key
>>>> whatever they throw at me and it somehow seems to always work.
>>>>
>>>> . Two spare RCA phono plugs AND an internal provision to connect two coax
>>>> cables to these to be used as connection for a pre-selector or noise
>>>> cancelor.
>>>>
>>>> . A serial port.
>>>>
>>>> . Connection for the POD (the remote VFO knob). I sometimes miss this on
>>>> my
>>>> Eagle.
>>>>
>>>> . 2 antenna jacks
>>>>
>>>> . Ethernet connection
>>>>
>>>> . AUX RX (antenna) - an input for a receive-only antenna (uses one of the
>>>> two ANT connections)
>>>>
>>>> . Adjustable bandwidth on SSB
>>>>
>>>> . Adjustable RX and TX equalizers
>>>>
>>>> . CTCSS for FM
>>>>
>>>> . Adjustable CW (keying) weighting
>>>>
>>>> . SPOT (for spotting in CW) - which I personally feel is worthless
>>>>
>>>> . Adjustable rise/fall time on CW. A fancy option but I don't feel it is
>>>> necessary. The Eagle's CW signal is just fine.
>>>>
>>>> . FSK X Data (if you are into RTTY)
>>>>
>>>> . VFO Speed Shift which basically speeds up the tuning rate by a factor of
>>>
>>>> 4
>>>> when you turn the VFO knob real fast. Many people like this feature a
>>>> lot.
>>>>
>>>> . A very comfortable software menu (probably the very best in the
>>>> industry)
>>>>
>>>> . OmniRig support (very important for many 3rd party software programs)
>>>>
>>>> . A dedicated RIT/XIT knob (using the RIT on the Eagle is very clumsy)
>>>>
>>>> . And of course REMOTE CONTROL (over the Internet)
>>>>
>>>> That's all that comes to mind right now, but keep in mind that I do not
>>>> own
>>>> an OM7 and the last time I even saw or used one was in 2007. That was 7
>>>> years ago. and my old grey cells "ain't what they used to be".
>>>>
>>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TenTec mailing list
>>>> TenTec@contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
>>
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