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[AMPS] ssr's in qro amps

To: <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [AMPS] ssr's in qro amps
From: w7iuv@nis4u.com (Larry Molitor)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 07:18:51 +0100
Tom,

At first I wasn't going to respond to your post at all, but decided that 
maybe I would try one more time....

It appears to me that the concept of "NO HV on RX" is so utterly alien to 
the amateur community that most folks, including you, have jumped to the 
wrong conclusion. I have stated that I make mistakes. Maybe I'm wrong again 
now, but it really seems to me that people are not reading and 
understanding. Let me go through your points one at a time and see if we 
can get to some mutual ground.


>I am saying a simple interlock is more reliable than switching the
>HV supply off and on hundreds of times a day or week, and
>expecting something won't eventually fail, and depending on
>complex external wiring to turn off HV for safety.

You know as well as I do that circuits can be designed to rapid cycle 
reliably. For instance, pulsed radar, the flashing yellow light at the 
intersection down the street, a microwave oven oscillator/PA, and switch 
mode power supplies. I have a choke input HV supply that I have used in 
this mode for twenty years without a single failure. This new cap input 
supply is still in question, I'll get back to you in twenty years.

As for as wiring, it is no more complex that that used to operate the 
customary vacuum relays and/or the cutoff bias for the tube. Again, I just 
don't see a reliability issue.



>No matter if there is an interlock or not, I always unplug and wait. I
>always check the HV meter, and then crowbar the supply.

Good advice. I never said not to do any of this. I absolutely agree.


>I can't see any safety advantage when depending on a transmitter
>control line to turn off the mains power to the amplifier HV supply.

We have a real problem here. Perhaps it's just semantics. I do not depend 
on this feature. It is just one of many redundant things I do to increase 
my chances of being around long enough to work another new one on 160.


>As a matter of fact, I consider it a potential hazard. The operator
>might be lulled into a false sense of security... depending on
>station wiring and the rig being in a non-transmit mode to make the
>PA "safe to touch".

A PA is never "safe to touch". At least, one should never consider it to be 
so. A foolish person may depend on a single safety feature to "safe" a PA, 
I do not. All this not withstanding, on two separate occasions, two 
different transmitters, I had the opportunity to get a taste of "old 
sparky". Each time I was 110% sure, beyond any doubt, that I had done what 
was required and that it was "safe". I submit that, at least in my personal 
experience, one more safety device would have been handy.


>  Have you
> > figured out how to probe a circuit with all the covers in place?
>
>Sure. I test each component, or disconnect components to isolate
>problems and THEN put the cover back on to see if the fault clears.

OK for stuff as complex as a flashlight. My question assumes you have done 
all that was possible with power off and are now faced with the problem of 
circuit performance evaluation while under power.


>The only exception is when I have a cover open, and then I go to a
>breaker and turn the PA on while I am across the room. I
>absolutely never get near the PA when HV is accessible and able
>to be turned on.

Unworkable for me. I cannot read the meters, scope, spectrum analyzer, etc, 
from across the room without binoculars. Perhaps you are a ballerina on 
your night job, but I'm the bull in the china shop. It is necessary for me 
to minimize the amount of movement I must do while things are "hot". With 
my propensity for clumsiness and mishap, I would trip on a shoelace and 
fall face first into the PA. Nope, definitely not a workable solution.


>I have specific covers that allow me to access non-HV areas for
>certain troubleshooting, or I disable the primarys by removing the
>wiring connections at some point before trouble shooting LV
>circuits.

I have found plexiglass covers with holes in strategic spots allow 
necessary probing with minimal exposure. Good for production line work, not 
easy for home work, but doable.

>
>
>Anyone who does otherwise is a fool, in my opinion. There is
>NEVER a reason to power up a PA and stick one's hands inside

According to Mr. Measures, it is necessary to do that to tune the cathode 
networks. I personally do that operation on the workbench, with no power 
source in sight. It may take a trip or two back and forth between the amp 
rack and the workbench to get it set the way I want, but sure beats 
sticking ones hands inside the hot box.

In closing, let me re-iterate a few points.

1) Someone asked about SSR usage and opinions thereof. I replied with my 
usage and opinion along with  some background for that opinion. The list 
went nuts. It's as if I repudiated all conventional safety measures and 
demanded that everyone convert to my kind of supply.

2) Never once did I suggest that this approach was appropriate for anyone 
but myself.

3) Never once did I even suggest this was a replacement for conventional 
safety measures.

4) I don't sell amps or supplies or parts for them. I really don't give a 
rip if anybody wants to do what I did or not. My concept (although not 
really mine, it's been done before) has been called wacky. You betcha! If I 
wanted conventional I would go get an Alpha or a Henry. I homebrew this 
stuff because I want it my way. Read that MY WAY, not Rich's way, not Tom's 
way, not Mr. DAFfy's way, but MY WAY.

So, somebody, please tell me: What set off all you folks?

73,

Larry - W7IUV


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