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[Amps] LCR meter

To: <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [Amps] LCR meter
From: "Jim Thomson" <Jim.thom@telus.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 03:14:44 -0700
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 09:32:42 +0300
From: "Alex Eban" <alexeban@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] LCR meter.


 The AADE instrument is more than adequate for all practical purposes. It's
nice to have variable frequency option, but in any case, at the higher
frequencies, the influence of unpredictable strays in the circuit becomes so
strong, that frequency dependent variables in the component cease to be
relevant. These unpredictables strays make any accuracy over a few percents
superfluous.
BTW, another very adequate instrument is the Autek RFxx series at half the
price of an MFJ, with variable frequency AND reactance sign.
Alex 4Z5KS

##  bottom line is.. when a 10 uh coil measures anything other than
10 uh, you will screw up  your pi-net, LC networks etc, guaranteed. 

##  rauch claims the stray C  [Xc] between turns of a coil will negate
from the coil itself   [Xl].   If that's the case, then why is it, that when I 
compress
the turns  together  on any tubing coil, the uh  goes WAY up ? 

##  as  a  side note, that's  what F-12 uses on their infamous tornado drive,
to get their 80m rotary dipole's and  80m yagi's, from  ssb  band.. to the cw 
band,
and no rolling contacts, like in a roller inductor.  




Jim,

My question is to the fundamental accuracy of the MFJ vs. the effects on
calibration variation.  Is the MFJ really this inaccurate, or is the
accuracy in your case atypical.  It would be interesting if someone else
could do a controlled test with the MFJ vs. a lab type unit (well, a unit of
known capability).

##  IF  I use a MFJ-259  to tap a tank  coil, at say 4 uh... and the same tap 
shows
as 6 uh on my 875B,  now I have a discrepancy.  The  GM3SEK  PI  spreadsheet
will  depict values  for C1, L,  C2.   IF  the spread sheet  wants  4 uh, and 
XXX  for
C1.... and YYY  for C2..... and the mfj is used  to tap the  coil at 4uh.... 
then what happens
is the  C1 and C2 values [after tweaking for resonance on the standard test 
jig]  are  way on 
the LOW side.    The coil is in reality 6 uh.. and not 4 uh ! 

##  Now if the 875 is used to tap the coil  to 4 uh, then both the C1  and C2  
caps [ both
jennings ceramic vac caps]   come out  dead on  VS  the Pi spread sheet.   The 
point here is,
sure, there might be  variations in measuring uh on your favorite test gear, 
but  the  giveaway
is when the same coil is used in a tuned circuit, like a PI  net..... or in a 
LC network.  IF I use the
MFJ  to tweak the tubing coil  in the LC network, used  for  50 ohms in.. and  
25 ohms out [ to handle
2 x 40m yagi's]  the LC network is a mile off.  [ caps used are paralleled  
HT-50/58 doorknobs]...
and  ditto  with the  50 ohm in, 16.66 ohm  out  LC  network, [used  for  3 x 
20m yagis]. 

##  I can't rely, or use the MFJ  to design any of these networks, it doesn't 
work, plane and simple ! 
I also used the B+K  875  to  wind the  tubing  coils used for making hairpins  
for  the 160 vertical,
80m rotary dipole, 40m yagi, and 20m yagi.   When  I require precisely, a  say 
.8 uh  coil  for a hairpin
tubing coil,  I don't want  a ,9uh.. or a .6 uh..... none of which will work 
anyway.    I use  stokes  book to get
the tubing coil winding [L to diam ratio I'm using]  into the ballpark.   Then  
tweak with the 875....  then install it,
then flat swr right off the bat.   Plan B is.. the  coil is compressed 
/expanded till  flat swr results.  Coil is then
measured on the  875... and it'  measured value is dead on VS   Bings  RF  
software  network analyzer
spreadsheet I use to design  LC networks.    The hairpins also come out dead 
on. 

Nothing more frustrating than tearing your hair out with a mfj, that flat out 
can't measure pf and uh. 
I also bought the pair of  mating 'grid dip coils' for the mfj-259b.   Totally 
useless as  a grid dip meter.
I can't grid dip anything with them, even simple 10uh  coil and parallel  cap 
on the bench.... and neither
can any of my associates.   Even rauch sez they don't work....  so don't waste 
your money. 

The  259 is a glorified swr meter, that's  handy on top of a tower.. and that's 
 about it. 

Jim   VE7RF


I only have the AADE meter here in are the Fo there is variable; as well as
the MFJ.

73/jeff/ac0c

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