I thank you for your service to this nation sir.
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 7:46 PM, Carl <km1h@jeremy.qozzy.com> wrote:
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Col. Paul E. Cater" <paulecater@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 2:14 PM
> Cc: "Amps reflector" <amps@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] ceramic vs glass
>
> Carl,
>>
>> you must really enjoy hosing down the decks with testosterone. It seems
>> to
>> be a pattern. When things turn a bit off for you, you get personnel. So
>> be it, that is your style.
>>
>
>
> ** Nice try at damage control. When the seat gets hot the accusations fly
> and trying to spin it back.
> Any credible debater wouldn't stoop to that.
>
>
> I have reviewed the specs sheets and my comments hold true to what they
>> are
>> saying about the 500 & 400Zs. Seal temps are the thing. Both mention
>> that
>> more cooling will extend tube life. I see nothing but them insuring you
>> have the proper sockets & chimneys in place.
>>
>
> ** You havent dug deep enough.
>
>
>
>> In closing, I am very proud to be a Kentucky Col. It has nothing to due
>> with current nor past military service. Go to their site and read the
>> history.
>>
>
>
> ** Oh Ive read all about that and the 1856 mansion you get to live in as
> caretaker some time back
> to satisfy my curiosity. It must be fun to host the ghostchasers.
>
> ** The original part of my house was built before 1835, no ghosts yet but
> lots of spiders, mice,
> snakes, squirrels, bats, wasps, and chipmunks when I bought it in 89.
>
>
> They are a wonderful group of gentlemen that do great works. If
>
>> you do not like it "* So what about the Kentucky Colonel type of
>> honorific*"
>> simply block or delete my posts Mr Warrant Officer.
>>
>
> ** What and miss all the fun with El Colonel?
>
> The Naval WOs I worked
>
>> with were a nice group of folks. We had several in the crypto community.
>>
>
> ** I was also involved in crypto and we may have crossed paths. I was
> primarily an instructor
> and working with enlisted and officers was a pleasure since they had
> respect for the Senior
> and Master Chiefs and the WO's who had decades of experience.
>
> Dealing with some civilians who were so full of themselves was a
> disruption to the class.
> Maybe we really did cross paths.
>
>
> Myself, I held the equivalent of flag rank after departing the Navy for a
>> real pay check.
>>
>
> Gee Whiz, I never got past Commander as a civilian but I always preferred
> to bunk with the Chiefs when at sea.
> A much nicer group of people especially on CVN's.
>
> Carl
> KM1H
>
>
>
>
>> Paul
>> WD8OSU
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 1:52 PM, Carl <km1h@jeremy.qozzy.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Col. Paul E. Cater" <paulecater@gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 11:57 AM
>>> Cc: "Amps reflector" <amps@contesting.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] ceramic vs glass
>>>
>>> I didn't mention any numbers. If I did I would have pulled them out my
>>>
>>>> butt like most do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ** Unfortunately that is true.
>>>
>>>
>>> I really don't know where you would find any reliable
>>>
>>> data on it other then peoples experience and hearsay.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ** Myself and several others across the many forums have decades of amp
>>> experirence repairing them for others or replying to posts. I feel I can
>>> trust the others and Ive kept pretty good records since the 60's.
>>>
>>>
>>> Duty cycle plays the
>>>
>>> most important role in all of this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ** That is the least important as the majority are on SSB and CW is a
>>> distant second. RTTY is way down on the curve plus amp manuals specify
>>> the
>>> derating for it and AM. Most digital mode users are proud of doing it
>>> with
>>> 100W or less.
>>>
>>>
>>> My sole point was, tubes properly cooled last way longer in full tilt
>>>
>>>> buggy
>>>> then those that are not. The muffin fan jobs you mention and
>>>> specifically
>>>> the SBs are not rated anywhere near the tubes capability. Niether is
>>>> the
>>>> P/S for that matter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Even contesting isnt full tilt use of an amp and there are still many
>>> flogging a SB-220 which was built as a 1000W CW 2000W PEP INPUT amp.
>>> Maybe
>>> you werent playing ham back in those days.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Having used both types at many MARS stations and myself, we opted for
>>>> something that used chimneys as we did not have to replace the tubes.
>>>> More
>>>> money initially but not popping bottles in and out. I was sitting here
>>>> trying to recall if I ever replaced a 500z in a top end amp, ie Henry.
>>>> or
>>>> whomever. I do recall putting them in muffin fan decks often.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> MARS isnt ham radio
>>>
>>>
>>> Nope, didn't look up the spec sheet. Last time I looked at one cooling
>>>
>>>> was
>>>> stated verses usage with minimums. I'll have a look.
>>>>
>>>> So, my opinion and experience speaking and nothing else.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ** That is obvious.
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>> WD8OSU
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ** So what about the Kentucky Colonel type of honorific? Id expect a real
>>> USA, USAF, or USMC Colonel or other officer would
>>> be a bit upset to see it always in their face. Im just a retired USN WO4
>>> and don't have to keep pushing it.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>> KM1H
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 11:19 AM, Carl <km1h@jeremy.qozzy.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't know where you get those numbers from but they are obviously
>>>>
>>>>> improperly weighted.
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all the 3-500 fan amps far outnumber the ones with chimneys
>>>>> by
>>>>> a
>>>>> huge amount,
>>>>> the SB-220/221/HL-2200 alone sold in the 30-50K range according to
>>>>> many.
>>>>> Fan failures are actually very few if the owners had enough smarts to
>>>>> oil
>>>>> the bearings and remove the filth off the blades once in awhile. For an
>>>>> amp
>>>>> that first sold in 1970 it has an extremely good track record
>>>>> considering the abuse it gets by clueless hams.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reports of SB-220's with filament pin solder melting can always be
>>>>> traced
>>>>> to builder inability to read and follow directions,
>>>>> or a later owner being lazy or forgetful.
>>>>> The positioning of the fan blade on the shaft is critical; plus that
>>>>> little aluminum top piece is critical to direct air below the
>>>>> chassis....many left it off after servicing the amp. A couple of other
>>>>> brands were designed by those who didn't understand air flow and
>>>>> created
>>>>> air dams below the chassis; drilling a few 1/4" holes at the end to
>>>>> equalize release solved that problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Command Technologies amps are another case of an air dam frying
>>>>> components; this time the PS board and components.
>>>>>
>>>>> The AL-80 family is also a huge 3-500 seller going back 30 years and
>>>>> fans
>>>>> arent a problem for most even at the ridiculous power the manual says
>>>>> is
>>>>> OK. Tubes and RF components fail but not due to the fan. When
>>>>> manufacturers
>>>>> switch to a cheap plastic fan to save money you can expect noise and
>>>>> quality problems.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Ameritrons with blowers and chimneys have their share of blower
>>>>> failures or just noisy bearings that owners tolerate; the sales totals
>>>>> are
>>>>> actually quite low so you hear little about it but there are far more
>>>>> active amp forums than this very obsolete email reflector.
>>>>>
>>>>> Something else you obviously missed is that Eimac approved in writing
>>>>> and
>>>>> later in spec sheets the use of fan cooling as far back as the 60's for
>>>>> the
>>>>> Johnson Thunderbolt which used 4-400A's. The stipulation was that seal
>>>>> temperatures not be exceeded and Im not
>>>>> aware of any 4-400, 3-400, or 3-500 that had a glass meltdown in normal
>>>>> use....CB use doesn't count!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl
>>>>> KM1H
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>> From: "Col. Paul E. Cater" <paulecater@gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 9:40 AM
>>>>> Cc: "Amps reflector" <amps@contesting.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] ceramic vs glass
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm dubious about some of the ceramics. The ones that require more
>>>>> parts
>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>> protect it then actually use it and the old Russian jobs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 500Z is a time proven design. Many of the failures are do to
>>>>>> mechanical issues, over optimistic ops, and not the tube itself. I
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> never understood why someone would build up a pair of 500s and put a
>>>>>> muffin
>>>>>> fan on them. Cheap commercial jobs do this to save money. It is
>>>>>> really a
>>>>>> disservice to the tube and it's capabilities. The mean time between
>>>>>> failures on muffin fan types and actual blowers with chimneys on these
>>>>>> guys
>>>>>> is enormous.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WD8OSU
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Jim Thomson <jim.thom@telus.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2015 12:53:21 +1030
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Leigh Turner" <invertech@frontierisp.net.au>
>>>>>>> To: "'Bill Turner'" <dezrat@outlook.com>, <amps@contesting.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] 5 Minutes for Ameritron 811H to warm up?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Personally I wholeheartedly concur with your sentiments here Bill;
>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> my shack amps are of the ceramic tube variety and indeed do seem to
>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>> forever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My only exception amp is the venerable Kenwood TL-922 with its
>>>>>>> nostalgic
>>>>>>> pair of Eimac 3-500Z glass bottles...they too have proven very
>>>>>>> reliable
>>>>>>> workhorses! The proviso rider with any tube is absence of abuse.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Leigh
>>>>>>> VK5KLT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ## whats the most anybody has gotten out of these russian ceramic
>>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>> tubes
>>>>>>> like GU-74B etc ?? Can you get 20 years out of them, beating on
>>>>>>> em
>>>>>>> 7
>>>>>>> days a week,
>>>>>>> like an Eimac 3-500Z ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ## What is longest anybody has gotten out of an Eimac 8877 ??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ## at least with the bigger eimac ceramic tubes, like 3x3, 3x6,
>>>>>>> 3x10,
>>>>>>> 4x5, 4x10,
>>>>>>> they can be re-built till hell freezes over, unlike their throw away,
>>>>>>> smaller ceramic
>>>>>>> siblings. IMO, you get a bigger bang for the $ with the bigger
>>>>>>> ceramic
>>>>>>> tubes, esp
>>>>>>> since being thoriated tungsten fil, you can reduce the fil V way
>>>>>>> down,
>>>>>>> like 12% or more,
>>>>>>> further extending tube life. Take a 3x3... rated for 2.5 A CCS
>>>>>>> plate
>>>>>>> current...then run it
>>>>>>> at 1.5 to 1.7 A plate current..alon with reduced fil V. It will last
>>>>>>> forever.
>>>>>>> The typ 2 x 3-500Z amp is rated at 800ma max plate current.... and my
>>>>>>> L4B
>>>>>>> runs
>>>>>>> at 800ma..just to get 1290w po.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jim VE7RF
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Amps mailing list
>>>>>>> Amps@contesting.com
>>>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Amps mailing list
>>>>>> Amps@contesting.com
>>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>
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