Why even bother with a reflector if someone isn’t allowed to vigorously
disagree with a posting?
You will note there was no ad hominem in my post. I didn’t call it silly and I
didn’t insult the OP.
What I did do was elucidate a number of scenarios that make the idea untenable.
Is that so bad?
I would welcome a debate on the issue, rather than a blanket condemnation of
dissent.
73, kelly, ve4xt,
> On Sep 9, 2016, at 10:33 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <w0mu@w0mu.com> wrote:
>
> I am not slicing or dicing it. I just wish we could discuss things and leave
> out the derogatory terms, name calling and similar.
>
> I understand the original post. Do I think we could ever write rules for it?
> Nope.
>
> We can't enforce the ones we have. It doesn't mean we can't discuss things
> even if we don't agree with the premise.
>
> There is and will never be a fair in Ham Radio Contesting. WRTC is as close
> as we can get and we have already shown that process has issues with team and
> site selection.
>
> Why even bother with a reflector if every new idea needs to be hurled away
> with great force just because someone doesn't agree with it?
>
> W0MU
>
> On 9/9/2016 8:49 AM, Kelly Taylor wrote:
>> How finely do you slice it, Mike?
>>
>> Do you create a category for owners who do their own work vs. hiring K7LXC?
>> Extra points for being able to service an IC-7851 yourself? Do those who
>> scrounge deserve special status from those who call up Icom, JK Antennas and
>> AN Wireless with their Platinum American Express in hand?
>>
>> How about a hired gun who also happens to be the owner’s wrench-slinger? If
>> K7LXC operated a customer’s station, is he a hired gun?
>>
>> None of the operators at K3LR, other than K3LR, owns the station, yet the
>> owner who also operates does. Does that give K3LR a separate category from
>> W3LPL when Frank isn’t operating?
>>
>> What if W0AIH, arguably the elder statesman of station construction, played
>> somewhere else? Don't K6LA and K1ZM already get a significant advantage
>> (which I don’t take issue with) at VY2TT and VY2ZM? Should they also be
>> granted extra status owing to their owning their stations?
>>
>> Would the owner of Radio City deserve owner-operator status if he didn’t
>> lift a finger to build the store’s station but instead instructed his staff
>> to do it?
>>
>> Finally, isn’t it all even more classicism than already exists in
>> contesting? The folks who can afford to build dream stations in dream
>> locations already get a huge advantage, and we want to give them more?
>> Seriously?
>>
>> To quote — possibly misquote — K0HB, this isn’t an idea that should be
>> tossed aside casually. It should be hurled away with great force!
>>
>> 73, kelly, ve4xt,
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 9, 2016, at 9:00 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <w0mu@w0mu.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Maybe, but your opinion about the matter hold not more value than mine. We
>>> have endless arguments about the same things year in and year out. Why is
>>> this idea any different?
>>>
>>> To you it was silly. Maybe others agree with the OP (original poster) but
>>> might be afraid to even post. Could you blame them?
>>>
>>> Should hired guns be classified in their own group? I didn't find his post
>>> disrespectful to anyone. He simply was proposing that people that build,
>>> maintain and own their station be judge similarly.
>>>
>>> Hired guns get the luxury of walking into a fully capable station and have
>>> to have done a last minute repair, put up a last minute antenna and they
>>> might be better rested than the station owner who came home to something
>>> broken right before the contest.
>>>
>>> Should the station owner of a station using a hired gun be allowed to do
>>> any work on the station if something were to break or malfunction? Why
>>> should the hire gun get a built in repairman when the station
>>> owner/operator is not afforded the same luxury? Hired guns as someone else
>>> has mention can spend all their time working on operating while owner
>>> operators have to spend time building and maintaining. Those are choices
>>> we make freely.
>>>
>>> What is the problem talking about other ways to score or compare scores?
>>> We have them constantly about CQ WW and trying to make it appear more fair
>>> for people that do not live in propagation blessed areas.
>>>
>>> We can make the rules as simple or complex as we like as these are our
>>> events.
>>>
>>> Do we really need to use the words silly, troll, etc. If you want to
>>> comment on a post is it that difficult to do so with out insulting people?
>>> Would people say these things to a stranger in person that you might meet
>>> at Dayton? Most probably would not. Hiding behind our computer screens
>>> does not give us the right to be jerks.
>>>
>>> W0MU
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/8/2016 11:49 AM, David Gilbert wrote:
>>>> I saw it differently. It seemed to me that NN4X was being quite
>>>> disrespectful toward skilled operators, who by simple virtue of not being
>>>> able to afford a competent station of their own, should be discriminated
>>>> against if they get the opportunity to compete from a better station. His
>>>> suggestion would also open up an endless and contentious argument of what
>>>> exactly qualifies for such a category, as at least a few replies here have
>>>> already identified.
>>>>
>>>> A silly suggestion isn't courage.
>>>>
>>>> Dave AB7E
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/8/2016 6:58 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
>>>>> I understand the point that NN4X was making. Do people need to be
>>>>> arseholes when they don't necessarily agree?
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought the purpose of this reflector was to discuss and debate ideas,
>>>>> concepts, etc. I didn't realize that I had to agree with a particular
>>>>> mantra to be a member of the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> This list has devolved into name calling and many are quite disrespectful
>>>>> of others opinions and comments.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess this is what happens when people become old farts?
>>>>>
>>>>> These posts just show that hams are just like everyone else. The
>>>>> disrespect shown toward others in the real world is about the same as in
>>>>> this reflector. I used to think Ham Radio people were better people,
>>>>> would never cheat, treated others as they would like to be treated. No
>>>>> longer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a particular platform that members of this list must conform to
>>>>> in order to be accepted?
>>>>>
>>>>> At least NN4X has the courage to make some suggestions. Most simply
>>>>> continue to keep their heads firmly planted in the sand.
>>>>>
>>>>> The value of this list continues to fade.
>>>>>
>>>>> W0MU
>>>>>
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