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Re: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting

To: "CQ-Contest@contesting.com" <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting
From: donovanf@starpower.net
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 01:01:16 -0400 (EDT)
List-post: <mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
Hi Sterling, 


If the originator of a live stream intends to compete in a contest, 
its incumbent on the competitor to comply with the rules. 
It doesn't matter if others haven't complied in the past. 
It doesn't matter if its hard to do. 


Correspond with your ARRL Director if you want different rules. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Sterling Mann" <kawfey@gmail.com> 
To: donovanf@starpower.net 
Cc: "CQ-Contest@contesting.com" <cq-contest@contesting.com> 
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 2:38:46 AM 
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting 



Frank, we have differing opinions regarding the judgement of the W2RE's actions 
and the intent of the rules. 



His CQs, exchanges, and solicitations were not relayed over the internet. 
"Contacts made through repeaters, digipeaters, or gateways are not permitted. 
This applies to all forms of active relays or repeaters" is saying the contact 
may only take place without relays. No contact was made using the stream. To do 
this, an S&P who could not hear W2RE but W2RE could hear the S&Per would have 
to entirely use the audio of the stream to complete the contact. However, 
livestreams are always on a fairly significant delay (typically 30s), so one 
could not make a real-time QSO with him solely by listening to him on the 
stream. https://youtu.be/aydTZN4nLfU?t=20005 is one case where someone said 
"love the youtube channel" but I guarantee the S&Per made the QSO entirely via 
amateur radio due to this delay. 


Nor was he soliciting contacts via the stream. Solicitation implies that he was 
asking people to work him on a non-amateur means of communication, but I don't 
think that's the case here. To solicit a QSO, he would need to give a potential 
contact his frequency. Arguably he could have also said "find me on 20m" or 
"find my spots" and that may have been a violation. He says that he's at the 
bottom of the band here: https://youtu.be/aydTZN4nLfU?t=97 and to look on the 
dx cluster here: https://youtu.be/aydTZN4nLfU?t=623 . I do think saying that is 
not compliant to the rules, but I don't think posting a stream of his operation 
is automatically solicitation. 



The video does not show his frequency, which would have been a clear violation, 
but others independently posted his run freq to the chat after finding it on 
the cluster. Ideally, that should have been deleted, but I don't think W2RE is 
responsible for what other people are saying. Personally, I'm in agreement with 
others that say an unlimited category would be good here. Ideally the 
self-spotting rule would not apply to unlimited, keeping us from having to 
think too hard about what self-spotting is. 


Additionally, Ray seems to be aware of the chat in the beginning but later on, 
as they discuss what frequency he's on, he seems to ignore it. It may have been 
put out of his sight, in which case he's not responsible for viewers conspiring 
together to work him. At least I don't think he is. But this is where the 
problem has it's greatest merit - does the stream give him an advantage over 
other operators? Averaged out over time, I don't really think it does. 


The only rule I could see him potentially violating is giving stations that 
work him a non-amateur means of verifying the information in their QSO. An 
S&Per might botch the QSO, be watching the stream, wait 30s after the QSO, and 
hear Ray "repeat" it on stream. But is that on Ray, or on the other op? I would 
argue the S&Per is breaking the rules because that person is using a 
non-amateur means to complete the QSO, exactly like if the S&Per texted W2RE 
what his exchange is. It's analogous to a gun manufacturer being liable for 
deaths caused by their guns. The catch is in the texting case, W2RE is an 
accomplice to the S&Pers violation. On a stream, is W2RE an accomplice in the 
same way? You would have to say that W2REs purpose for the stream is to give 
his S&Pers a second chance, but the evidence doesn't lead me to that 
conclusion. 



Jeez. I spend way too much time writing emails on this list. I'm sorry to write 
a brick of text but this is CQ-contest, and it's the one place on the world 
wide web full of other contesters where discussions like these can be hashed 
out into action. 



-Sterling N0SSC 





On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 8:36 PM < donovanf@starpower.net > wrote: 


T his video of the RHR Live Stream reveals violations of four General Rules for 
all ARRL Contests: 


www.youtube.com/watch?v=aydTZN4nLfU 




What are the specific violations shown in the video? 



1. CQs (i.e., soliciting a contact) were relayed via the internet 
2. Exchanges (a necessary half of every QSO) were relayed via the internet 
3. end-of-QSO solications (i.e., QRZs) were relayed via the internet 
4. His 14155 frequency was shown multiple times during the live stream 
5. 


What specific General Rules for all ARRL Contests were violated? 




3.9. Contacts made through repeaters, digipeaters, or gateways are not 
permitted 


1. 3.9.1. This applies to all forms of active relays or repeaters. 
2. 3.10. The use of non-Amateur Radio means of communication (for example, 
Internet or telephone) to solicit a contact (or contacts) during the contest 
period is not permitted. 
3. 3.14. In contests where spotting nets are permissible, spotting your own 
station or requesting another station to spot you is not permitted. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 





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