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Re: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting

To: Sterling Mann <kawfey@gmail.com>, donovanf@starpower.net
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting
From: Stephen Bloom <sbloom@acsalaska.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 22:50:53 -0700
List-post: <mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
I think the bottom line is, there was no bad intent, but the rules, which can 
be interpreted in various ways regarding remote should be clarified.  No audio 
or visual stream of operations should be allowed in a contest, except for multi 
op teams who are at least in part remote, and then only to each other.  It's a 
bad idea period.  Ray shouldn't be DQed, but he should have pulled the plug on 
the stream, the second he was aware of the spotting.  There should be an 
agreement to change it to a check log.  Besides, do we really need Twitch for 
contesters?73Steve KL7SB
-------- Original message --------From: Sterling Mann <kawfey@gmail.com> Date: 
3/12/20  7:38 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: donovanf@starpower.net Cc: 
"CQ-Contest@contesting.com" <cq-contest@contesting.com> Subject: Re: 
[CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting Frank, we have differing 
opinions regarding the judgement of the W2RE'sactions and the intent of the 
rules.His CQs, exchanges, and solicitations were not relayed over theinternet. 
*"Contactsmade through repeaters, digipeaters, or gateways are not permitted. 
Thisapplies to all forms of active relays or repeaters"* is saying the 
contactmay only take place without relays. No contact was made using the 
stream.To do this, an S&P who could not hear W2RE but W2RE could hear the 
S&Perwould have to entirely use the audio of the stream to complete the 
contact.However, livestreams are always on a fairly significant delay 
(typically30s), so one could not make a real-time QSO with him solely by 
listening tohim on the stream. https://youtu.be/aydTZN4nLfU?t=20005 is one case 
wheresomeone said "love the youtube channel" but I guarantee the S&Per made 
theQSO entirely via amateur radio due to this delay.Nor was he soliciting 
contacts via the stream. Solicitation implies that hewas asking people to work 
him on a non-amateur means of communication, butI don't think that's the case 
here. To solicit a QSO, he would need to givea potential contact his frequency. 
Arguably he could have also said "findme on 20m" or "find my spots" and that 
may have been a violation. He saysthat he's at the bottom of the band here: 
https://youtu.be/aydTZN4nLfU?t=97and to look on the dx cluster here: 
https://youtu.be/aydTZN4nLfU?t=623. Ido think saying that is not compliant to 
the rules, but I don't thinkposting a stream of his operation is automatically 
solicitation.The video does not show his frequency, which would have been a 
clearviolation, but others independently posted his run freq to the chat 
afterfinding it on the cluster. Ideally, that should have been deleted, but 
Idon't think W2RE is responsible for what other people are saying.Personally, 
I'm in agreement with others that say an unlimited categorywould be good here. 
Ideally the self-spotting rule would not apply tounlimited, keeping us from 
having to think too hard about whatself-spotting is.Additionally, Ray seems to 
be aware of the chat in the beginning but lateron, as they discuss what 
frequency he's on, he seems to ignore it. It mayhave been put out of his sight, 
in which case he's not responsible forviewers conspiring together to work him. 
At least I don't think he is. Butthis is where the problem has it's greatest 
merit - does the stream givehim an advantage over other operators? Averaged out 
over time, I don'treally think it does.The only rule I could see him 
potentially violating is giving stations thatwork him a non-amateur means of 
verifying the information in their QSO. AnS&Per might botch the QSO, be 
watching the stream, wait 30s after the QSO,and hear Ray "repeat" it on stream. 
But is that on Ray, or on the other op?I would argue the S&Per is breaking the 
rules because that person is usinga non-amateur means to complete the QSO, 
exactly like if the S&Per textedW2RE what his exchange is. It's analogous to a 
gun manufacturer beingliable for deaths caused by their guns. The catch is in 
the texting case,W2RE is an accomplice to the S&Pers violation. On a stream, is 
W2RE anaccomplice in the same way? You would have to say that W2REs purpose 
forthe stream is to give his S&Pers a second chance, but the evidence 
doesn'tlead me to that conclusion.Jeez. I spend way too much time writing 
emails on this list. I'm sorry towrite a brick of text but this is CQ-contest, 
and it's the one place on theworld wide web full of other contesters where 
discussions like these can behashed out into action.-Sterling N0SSCOn Thu, Mar 
12, 2020 at 8:36 PM <donovanf@starpower.net> wrote:> T his video of the RHR 
Live Stream reveals violations of four General> Rules for all ARRL Contests:>>> 
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aydTZN4nLfU>>>>> What are the specific violations shown 
in the video?>>>>     1. CQs (i.e., soliciting a contact) were relayed via the 
internet>     2. Exchanges (a necessary half of every QSO) were relayed via 
the> internet>     3. end-of-QSO solications (i.e., QRZs) were relayed via the 
internet>     4. His 14155 frequency was shown multiple times during the live 
stream>     5.>>> What specific General Rules for all ARRL Contests were 
violated?>>>>> 3.9. Contacts made through repeaters, digipeaters, or gateways 
are not> permitted>>>     1. 3.9.1. This applies to all forms of active relays 
or repeaters.>     2. 3.10. The use of non-Amateur Radio means of communication 
(for> example, Internet or telephone) to solicit a contact (or contacts) 
during> the contest period is not permitted.>     3. 3.14. In contests where 
spotting nets are permissible, spotting> your own station or requesting another 
station to spot you is not> permitted.>>> 73> Frank> W3LPL>>>>>>     1.>     
2.>     3.>     4.>     5.>     6.>         1.>     7.>     8.>     9.> 
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