TenTec
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [TenTec] Model 238C Tuner Questions

To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Model 238C Tuner Questions
From: "Bob McGraw - K4TAX" <RMcGraw@Blomand.net>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:40:26 -0500
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
Good points. A sanity check is always worth while. My intent was to show the differences in line loss vs. line impedance under highly mis-matched conditions.

I do find that measurements made by N7WS indicated the actual loss values are greater then those obtained from the N6BV calculator. The measured numbers by N7WS do closely concur with your values. At the same time the frequency used by N7WS is 50 MHz. When this frequency is applied to the N6BV calculator the loss figures are quite similar although in every case the N6BV calculated values are lower by some 30%. Same for the Z of the line being where N7WS shows the example to be 405 ohms.

In one case the numbers are presumably calculated while the other case the results are measured values. In dealing with very small loss values, the difficulty increases proportionally.

In practice and any case, the actual installed loss values for feed lines will be greater than the "book values" as these numbers are largely ideal or values obtained under highly controlled lab conditions and thus "not the real world" of applications.

Thanks for your feedback and input.

73
Bob, K4TAX







----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hunt" <steve@karinya.net>
To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 3:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Model 238C Tuner Questions



Bob,

One word of caution - you need to treat N6BV's loss figures for twin-wire lines with a big dose of scepticism; they are often a factor 2 optimistic! It's the case in every ARRL Antenna Book I have, and for the ARRL TLW software.

Here's an example:

N6BV's Generic Window Line has a quoted Zo of 405 Ohms and uses #18 wires.
100ft of #18 wire has an RF resistance of 14.75 Ohms at 30MHz
If the line is matched and flows 1A, the power delivered to the line is 405W and 29.5W (2x14.75W) is dissipated as heat
That represents a loss of 10Log(375.5/405) = 0.328dB/100ft

Compare that with N6BV's TLW figure of 0.152dB/100ft

It's almost as if he forgot there are two wires, and so ended up with only half the actual loss ;)

73,
Steve G3TXQ



On 18/10/2012 02:04, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:

Based on the Transmission Line Calculator by N6BV:
For 600 ohm open wire line to a load of 50 ohms: 100 ft at 30 MHz will have a 10.49:1 SWR at the input and a 12.0:1 SWR at the load. Total loss would be 0.584 dB {line loss + SWR loss} Matched line loss is 0.105 dB. For 450 ohm window line to a load of 50 ohms: 100 ft at 30 MHz will have a 7.11:1 SWR at the input and a 8.10:1 SWR at the load. Total loss would be 0.574 dB {line loss + SWR loss} Matched line loss is 0.152 dB


_______________________________________________
TenTec mailing list
TenTec@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec



_______________________________________________
TenTec mailing list
TenTec@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>