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Re: [TenTec] Orion logic issue

To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Orion logic issue
From: Gary J FollettDukes HiFi <dukeshifi@comcast.net>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 13:05:16 -0500
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
Since windows 7 no longer includes Hyperterm, do you have a suggestion for a 
good, safe terminal program?

Gary


> On Jul 31, 2016, at 11:52 AM, David W LeJeune, Sr <lejeuned@centurytel.net> 
> wrote:
> 
> If you have terminal software available, start it up, set it to 57600 baud, 
> no parity, one stopbit and RTS/CTS flow control on whatever serial port you 
> have connected to the ORION.  Then send it this command:
> XX<cr>  (<cr> is the enter button on the keyboard).  This is the restart 
> command.  It should respond with the following:
> " ORION STARTED"  (without the ")
> If this awakens the radio, then you have a firmware problem - probably a bad 
> eprom where the firmware is stored.
> 
> I suspect XX<cr> is the first thing the N4PY software does.
> 
> Dave WN5V
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary J 
> FollettDukes HiFi
> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 11:17 AM
> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Orion logic issue
> 
> I appreciate your remark regarding “waking up”. I  only used that phrase to 
> describe what APPEARS to be taking place.
> 
> The thing that is confusing is that, once the N4PY software is operated once, 
> just to connect and interact with the radio, the radio works fine even after 
> I disconnect the N4PY software.
> 
> All of the buttons work, the encoders work, even if I disconnect the PC from 
> the radio. 
> 
> It’s kind of like spraying ether down the throat of a carburetor to get an 
> old motor to start. Once started, gasoline sustains its operation just fine.
> 
> The only thing that causes the failure to reappear is turning the radio off, 
> then back on.
> 
> That is what I meant by “waking” the radio CPU-to-encoder/button 
> communications via the N4PY software.
> 
> Ten Tec has already had their hand at this radio. I do not know how 
> extensively they looked at it for its previous owner, but they said it needed 
> a $600 board, which they no longer had available. They were not specific 
> about which board, but I suspect it was the CPU board. 
> 
> I believe the CPU chip itself is good as it functions to make the radio 
> operational once the N4PY software has somehow triggered it. Since I have a 
> spare CPU board with a bad CPU, I have SOME hope of locating a bad part aside 
> from the CPU on the board with the “good” CPU that I could exchange from the 
> known bad board if I could determine the path for this data. That is to say, 
> f I could determine what path is being formed by the N4PY software to enable 
> button/encoder operation.
> 
> I have at my disposal several SMD technicians who are fully capable of 
> swapping even the big SMD’s without damage.
> 
> I am fairly adept at troubleshooting these things when I can get an idea of 
> what the designer had in mind when he or she designed hardware and wrote 
> software. 
> 
> Since I don’t have to pay myself $145/hour to work on this, and since I learn 
> something new every time I am successful in fixing something, I look upon 
> this effort as a more of a learning experience rather than a profit making 
> venture.
> 
> Thus, I am more willing spend the time to find the root cause than, say, a 
> tech at Ten Tec, who knows full well that the time to find the root cause 
> would exceed the dollar value of the radio fairly quickly at $145/hour.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gary
> 
> W0DVN
> 
> PS: This one is far too nice to end up as a parts mule…
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 31, 2016, at 10:14 AM, Wes Attaway (N5WA) <wesattaway@bellsouth.net> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I don't think the N4PY software is "waking up" anything.  What it is 
>> doing is bypassing a lot of the functions supplied by the manual 
>> encoder and button functions.
>> 
>> You have some kind of problem with signals going through the encoders 
>> and buttons that appear to not be working.
>> 
>> Unless someone can come up with something that you can T-shoot then it 
>> may be simpler to send the radio in for repairs.
>> 
>>  -------------------
>> Wes Attaway (N5WA)
>> (318) 393-3289 - Shreveport, LA
>> Computer/Cellphone Forensics
>> AttawayForensics.com
>>  -------------------
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary 
>> J FollettDukes HiFi
>> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:10 AM
>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Orion logic issue
>> 
>> I did reinstall the firmware. I even backloaded to an older version of 
>> the firmware, just to determine if this made a difference.
>> 
>> No joy.
>> 
>> It amazes me just how repeatable the failure is, especially the part 
>> about the lack of encoder function that is immediately restored when I 
>> operate the radio for just a few actions using N4PY software. I think 
>> all I need to do is connect, because that action causes the Orion to 
>> go to the frequency stored on the C screen. From that point on, everything 
>> works.
>> 
>> It's like the N4PY "wakes up" the CPU so it can respond to the 
>> encoders and pushbuttons.
>> 
>> The schematic is not terribly helpful in revealing how the keystroke 
>> and encoder signals get into the CPU, nor is it clear how the serial 
>> data from the PC gets there either.
>> 
>> Just conjecture at this point, but it seems like some sort of startup 
>> timer is missing its position in the roll call during the boot 
>> sequence and the serial data from the PC substitutes for that by setting 
>> some flag.
>> 
>> It would be sort of like my having incorrectly entered bootstrap 
>> loader startup information in my old Heath H8 computer, data that 
>> tells the 8080 chip that a keyboard was connected.
>> 
>> Of course, the H8 had no error trapping and would have just crashed 
>> whereas this more sophisticated CPU seems to be able to go on 
>> functioning with some startup data missing.
>> 
>> Has anyone made a printed listing of the startup sequence of the 
>> Orion? Is there any "open source" listing of the operating firmware?
>> 
>> Gary
>> 
>> W0DVN
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 31, 2016, at 6:50 AM, Jeff <w4dd09@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Always start by reburning the firmware.  I have solved some  really 
>>> odd issues by doing this.
>>> 
>>> Jeff, W4DD
>>> 
>>> On Jul 31, 2016 7:20 AM, "D. Byron Allen" <n4axdxer@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It does boot up the latest software version, my problem started with 
>>> out
>> if
>>> band receive on 40 meters only when I powered the rig up in 40 meters 
>>> , no other band was  this problem seen , i used the rig everyday , 
>>> then didnt use the rig for a week , and then this last symptoms of no 
>>> operation on
>> any
>>> band.
>>> Byron / N4AX
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 30, 2016, at 10:36 PM, Gary J FollettDukes HiFi <
>>> dukeshifi@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sounds like yours is failing to boot up altogether. That's probably 
>>>> the
>>> CPU.
>>>> 
>>>> Mine does not up and does receiver, I get S meter light and can even 
>>>> hear
>>> signals. I just can't adjust volume or operate any encoders or 
>>> buttons except the VFO'.
>>>> 
>>>> Gary
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 30, 2016, at 10:20 PM, D. Byron Allen <n4axdxer@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> My Orion I just started this last week , no receive on any band , 
>>>>> no
>>> pushbutton control , cant change bands , no s meter signal or s meter 
>>> lights.will not key or transmit. Sent to Ten Tec Friday , see what 
>>> they tell me next week!
>>>>> Byron / N4AX
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 30, 2016, at 9:29 PM, Gary J FollettDukes HiFi <
>>> dukeshifi@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have an Orion 1 with an odd problem. I thought I'd ask if anyone 
>>>>>> had
>>> seen it before prior to an in-depth investigation.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The radio powers up OK, boots up as it should, sometimes it will 
>>>>>> even
>>> receive. The tuning encoders work fine at this point regardless.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> However, none of the small encoders or pushbuttons work.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> However, if I connect the radio to the computer, start N4PY 
>>>>>> software,
>>> the radio connects and I can generally make all functions work on the
>> Orion.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From that point on, all buttons and encoders work fine until I 
>>>>>> turn the
>>> radio off. I replaced the battery so that's not an issue.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyone seen this before?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> TenTec mailing list
>>>>>> TenTec@contesting.com
>>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
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