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Re: [TenTec] Omni VI audio problem

To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Omni VI audio problem
From: Greg S via TenTec <tentec@contesting.com>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 22:25:18 -0400
List-post: <mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
Run both audio sources in the back. Switch between them with a conveniently 
mounted DPDT switch. These rigs ain’t worth much any more. I little hole, or a 
bracket added somewhere isn’t gonna kill what little value they have left. I 
like mine, but have a few tinkerers mods slated for the upcoming winter months.
Kind regards,
Greg, KC8HXO 

Sent from my Linux device

> On Sep 18, 2018, at 09:29, Bob McGraw K4TAX <rmcgraw@blomand.net> wrote:
> 
> Even with that  approach, any noise coming out of the computer sound card 
> output stage will be sent to the input of the Omni VI.   This will occur even 
> when the audio gain of the computer is reduced or muted as the gain control 
> is before the output stage of the sound card.  Just the fact, any noise 
> coming out of the computer will be introduced into the MIC audio due to the 
> design of the circuit.
> 
> One can add some 20 dB of attenuation in the form of an L Pad between the 
> output of the computer and the input to the radio. This will reduce the 
> amount of noise to perhaps a satisfactory level.  But still, there will be 
> some noise coming from the computer sound care, reduced 20 dB.  And one will 
> then need to raise the gain of the data signal in the computer application to 
> off-set this 20 dB attenuation.   While I find this works and I operated this 
> way for years, the digital artifacts from the computer may still exist to 
> some lesser extent, although may be found to be satisfactory.
> 
> The best solution is to disconnect the cable to the rear input when not used. 
>  But when used, you will still likely need the 20 dB attenuation to clean up 
> the digital noise out of the computer.    A Transformer is an OK idea as long 
> as it is configured to have voltage loss and not matched loss.   The idea of 
> the transformer is to eliminate a "ground loop" what ever that might be.   
> {The only ground loop I'm familiar with is upon  less than a careful landing 
> of a Piper Tripacer in a cross wind.}
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
>> On 9/18/2018 4:50 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:
>> Stan, to get rid of the residual hash do one of the following:
>> 
>> 1. assure you have the computer chassis and Omni 6 chassis properly bonded
>> to common station ground.
>> 2. put an audio isolation transformer in the line between PC soundcard and
>> Omni 6 audio in
>> 
>> 73, Barry N1EU
>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 2:41 AM, Stan Gammons <s_gammons@charter.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Bob,
>>> 
>>> I removed the split core I had on the audio cable and put a solid core
>>> with several turns of the the audio cable wrapped around the core at the
>>> sound card output.  That drastically reduced the hash picked up from the
>>> PC.  So, it should  have a MUCH cleaner digital signal now.  Now when I
>>> remove the mic and short pin 3 to ground and turn the mic gain fully
>>> clockwise, the rig is putting out maybe 1 watt. Much better than the 100
>>> watts it was putting out when I tried the same thing before!  Yeah, it is a
>>> bummer that both are hot all the time.   I'll have to remember to
>>> disconnect the cable from the PC when operating phone.  Would have been
>>> nice if one were able to select the audio source.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your help.  Hopefully I'll sound better when I check into the
>>> net now :)
>>> 
>>> 73
>>> 
>>> Stan
>>> KM4HQE
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 9/17/2018 9:25 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Stan
>>>> Unfortunately that input on the rear is "hot" all of the time and the
>>>> signal (noise) is mixed with mike audio. It is isolated by a 10k ohm
>>>> resistor.  The MIC gain and SP level controls both inputs.
>>>> 
>>>> You must physically connect one or the other, but never both. There is no
>>>> provision in the radio to select between the two inputs.
>>>> 
>>>> I wouldn't bother with chokes as any noise from the computer or interface
>>>> will appear in mike audio.   Just the way it works. Bummer.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 17, 2018, at 9:16 PM, Stan Gammons <s_gammons@charter.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>> 
>>>>> One thing I forgot to check before and I pretty sure I found out what
>>>>> the problem is.  I have the PC soundcard out connected to the audio in on
>>>>> the back of the radio so I can use it for digital modes.  Seems as though
>>>>> it's picking up hash from the PC and it's getting mixed with the audio 
>>>>> from
>>>>> the mic. When I disconnect the cable from the PC, things are normal.  Dang
>>>>> it!  Guess I need to put another or more ferrite cores on the audio cable.
>>>>> I hear the computer hash when I test PTT with WSJT-X too.  So it's
>>>>> transmitting a cruddy digital signal too.  That's unacceptable.  I have to
>>>>> fix that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 73
>>>>> 
>>>>> Stan
>>>>> KM4HQE
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 9/17/2018 8:51 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>>>>>> Stan:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> First I suggest turning the speech processor OFF and forever leave it
>>>>>> OFF.    If you want to use it, just remember,  more is worse.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Even though the mikes worked on the TR7, I view this is no indication
>>>>>> the wiring is correct for the Omni VI.  I suggest checking the manual for
>>>>>> the correct mike wiring and physically confirm the mike of choice is 
>>>>>> wired
>>>>>> correctly.    I find mike wiring standards to be as varied as dust
>>>>>> particles in a Texas sandstorm.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Pin #1 is mike high or mike audio
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Pin #2 is ground and shield.  Be sure the shield of the mike cable also
>>>>>> folds back into the Amphenol cable connector to make contact with the 
>>>>>> shell.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Pin #3 is PTT
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Pin #4 is  +4 DCV for use with an Electrect mike.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Check the plug in filters on the bottom to see they are seated
>>>>>> correctly and correct location.  Again, contact cleaning of their pins
>>>>>> might be in order.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One other test, disconnect the mike, turn the MIC gain fully
>>>>>> counterclockwise {off}, transmit and listen to the radio.  With the 2nd
>>>>>> receiver, tune across the frequency and listen for carrier.  In general 
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> should be quiet.  If you hear significant carrier, there is a procedure 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> null the carrier.  Probably need an oscilloscope and dummy load to do 
>>>>>> that.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Next would be to check the frequency of the BFO crystals.  Again there
>>>>>> is an alignment procedure.  This must be adjusted in the exact steps
>>>>>> outlined in the manual as there is interaction between the adjustments.
>>>>>> Repeat the procedure a couple of times.   A frequency counter is required
>>>>>> for this adjustment.  Don't skip one step just because you don't intend 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> use that mode.  There is interaction between the adjustments.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And of course my last suggestion, which normally is my first
>>>>>> suggestion..........take time to pull each cable, using a Q-Tip moistened
>>>>>> with contact cleaner, scrub the male pins of each and every connector.
>>>>>> Then plug and unplug the connector  a couple of times so as to wipe the
>>>>>> female contacts. Do this one at a time and double check to see each
>>>>>> connector is inserted fully and correctly.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> NEVER NEVER NEVER spray anything into the radio.   {One fellow I know
>>>>>> [not me] removed the plugin IC's, sprayed into their sockets, and now he
>>>>>> has a radio full of issues and weirdness.   Remember contact cleaner is
>>>>>> used to promote the flow of current.   Imagine what takes place in a 
>>>>>> logic
>>>>>> IC socket that is wet with cleaner. ugh!!!! }
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> With a radio of that age, it not at all unusual for the electrolytic
>>>>>> caps in the audio stage to deteriorate.  One issue which can exist is the
>>>>>> output of a stage can drift negative a few millivolts.  In effect it will
>>>>>> reverse polarize the coupling capacitor.  The result is after time the 1
>>>>>> MFD cap will migrate to about 0.01 MFD.  Not a good path for audio in 
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> circuits. Makes the radio sound funny too.     I always replace the audio
>>>>>> coupling capacitors with nonpolar electrolytics of the same voltage and C
>>>>>> value.   There is no need to change parameters. Problem solved.  I had a
>>>>>> lengthy discussion with Tentec management and engineering on the subject
>>>>>> some years ago.   It almost caused me to not buy a new Omni VI Plus.
>>>>>> Finally, I did and loved it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 73
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 9/17/2018 8:00 PM, Stan Gammons wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I was tinkering with an old D-104 T-UG8 that I had put a Heil
>>>>>>> conversion kit in since the original element bit the dust. I ask for an
>>>>>>> audio report from some of the locals that know what I sound like and 
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> said I sounded terrible.  So, I switched to the Ten-Tec 707 mic, same
>>>>>>> report. So, I tried my trusty old EV-638. Same story.  I didn't try it 
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> the converted D-104 to see what it sounds like. They initially told me 
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> sounded like the mic was picking up something like a fan maybe, so 
>>>>>>> turning
>>>>>>> the gain down helped a little but not a lot. SO, today I decided to put 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Omni VI on a dummy load and listen to it with my Drake TR7.  Yuck! The 
>>>>>>> Omni
>>>>>>> VI sounds terrible!  It's almost like there is a little bit of a carrier
>>>>>>> and it has what sounds like digital hash on it. It gets worse the higher
>>>>>>> the mic gain is cranked. When I modulate, the audio sounds all 
>>>>>>> distorted.
>>>>>>> Even without modulation, if I turn the processor on and crank it up, the
>>>>>>> digital hash in the audio seems to get even wo
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   rse. SO, just to make sure it wasn't something weird going on, I did
>>>> the same thing with the TR7.  I put it on a dummy load and listened to it
>>>> with the Omni VI. I tried it with the same mics and the audio is clean. No
>>>> hash or anything.  Anyone heard of a problem like this with an Omni VI?
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Stan
>>>>>>> KM4HQE
>>>>>>> 
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