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[TowerTalk] Undisturbed soil

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] Undisturbed soil
From: Jwpjj@aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 07:38:28 EDT
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
In my experience over the last 40 yrs of being a building contractor,  I 
believe IMHO that it would be bad practice to dig a 10' x 10' hole and form a  
5' x 5' box 8' high and then add backfill material after removing the 
forms. If  it were stationary, such as a set of concrete steps etc, then its 
not 
a problem,  but with a 54' tower and antenna/s I feel this would be a 
potential problem over  time. I installed a 72' crankup a few years ago and 
being 
in the business I  had available a backhoe that almost could dig straight 
down the side of the  hole, of course there is hand work, and what is wrong 
with having a hole  that might be a foot or so bigger then needed with extra 
concrete at about  $110.00 a yard for #3000 lb.mix. Its called piece of mind 
when you hear late at  night the wind howling at 40+ miles an hour and you 
forgot to let the tower down  before you went to sleep!  Its called cheap 
insurance. 
 
John 
ND1X



 
In a message dated 4/27/2009 6:14:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
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Today's Topics:

1. Re:  Morse Code on Google (Kipton Moravec)
2. lightning  protection/power quality forum splits (Rick O'Keefe, TC)
3.  Re: Compacted vs. Undisturbed Soil (Tim N9PUZ)
4. Re:  Compacted vs. Undisturbed Soil (David Gilbert)
5. Re:  Compacted vs. Undisturbed Soil (Bill Aycock)
6. Re: Compacted  vs. Undisturbed Soil (Scott McClements)
7. Re: Compacted vs.  Undisturbed Soil (Mike)
8. Re: Morse Code on Google  (john@kk9a.com)
9. Re: 6M Beam being weird (Mike)
10. Re: [RFI] where to buy FairRite? (Dennis  Vernacchia)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:  1
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:29:23 -0500
From: Kipton Moravec  <kip@kdream.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Morse Code on Google
To:  scottw3tx@verizon.net
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID:  <1240860563.25539.105.camel@red.home>
Content-Type:  text/plain

Samual F. B. Morse was born on this day, in 1791.  

But everybody probably knew that.

Kip

On Mon, 2009-04-27  at 13:07 -0400, scottw3tx@verizon.net wrote:
> Google has a morse code  message on their site today!
> 
>  
> 
> 73,  Scott W3TX
> 
>  _______________________________________________
> 
> 
>  
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk  mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>  http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> 
--  


Kipton Moravec AE5IB .- . ..... .. -...  
==============================================
Four Way Test
Is it  the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and  Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
- Herbert J  Taylor  (1932)





------------------------------

Message:  2
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:37:21 -0400
From: "Rick O'Keefe, TC"  <fredrick@tech-center.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] lightning  protection/power quality forum splits
To:  <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <00ee01c9c76f$95478780$bfd69680$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Because the content of the Internet's only  professional lightning 
protection
& power quality forum attracted  mostly LPS questions, the power quality
section now has its own forum.  Electrical engineers and other interested
people may still discuss  lightning protection and electric shock medicine  
at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/lightningprotection/. The new  power
quality forum is at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PQ_Forum/.  
Both are moderated, meaning no message gets posted unless a  co-moderator
approves it as contributing information of interest, and the  messages are
signed with name, business and professional affiliations.  These are not 
chat
boards, and rarely is advertising accepted. Answers are  provided by
recognized technical leaders in engineering specialties so as  to create a
library of technically correct references. The forums are  explicitly not
substitutes for hiring a professional engineer experienced  in the area of
interest to create a PQ protection system or to solve a  problem, so we 
don't
provide site-specific fixes for problems.
Some of  the areas covered in the PQ Forum are surge suppression, harmonics,
UPS,  generators, maintenance, grounding and earthing.. 

Regards,
Dr. Rick  O'Keefe, IEEE, SME
AIT Technical Center
13014 N Dale Mabry Hwy  #363
Tampa FL  33618-2808
813.505.7013
mailto:fredrick@tech-center.com



------------------------------

Message:  3
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:52:50 -0500
From: Tim N9PUZ  <tim.n9puz@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Compacted vs.  Undisturbed Soil
To: Dick Flanagan <dick@k7vc.com>
Cc:  towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID:  <49F60D12.6070001@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Dick Flanagan wrote:

> My  friend is being told that properly compacted back-fill is the 
>  equivalent of undisturbed soil.  Is that true??

That sounds like  something I'd want the PE who put his name on plan to 
answer.

Tim,  N9PUZ



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date:  Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:19:40 -0700
From: David Gilbert  <xdavid@cis-broadband.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Compacted vs.  Undisturbed Soil
To: Dick Flanagan <dick@k7vc.com>
Cc:  towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID:  <49F6135C.3080003@cis-broadband.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed


I think that depends heavily on  the type of soil involved, and how the 
soil is compacted.  When I  backfilled under the slab of my house (behind 
the six foot high retaining  wall) I removed all rocks, laid the soil 
down in 3 inch layers, wet each  layer down, let each layer sit until it 
was just damp, and then compacted  each layer with a heavy duty plate 
compactor.  It took literally  months to finish, but the resulting adobe 
was so hard that when a 50 ton  crane drove across it to install a large 
rock it didn't leave any tread  impression at all ... only a dust print 
on the surface.  Even as hard  as the natural undisturbed soil is here on 
this rocky hillside, that adobe  I created under the slab is several 
times more resistant to  flow.

Most contractors, however, just dump in the backfill dirt and  tamp it 
every couple of feet with the backhoe bucket, and that is almost  for 
sure not the equivalent of undisturbed soil.

The biggest issue,  though, even if your friend goes to extraordinary 
means to compact the  backfilled soil, is whether the building inspector 
will bless it.   Signing off on something that doesn't have engineering 
approval (and that  cannot be independently verified later) puts the 
inspector in a pretty bad  position.  It also gives the P.E. an easy out 
if any liability  problems should arise later.  In a nutshell, your 
friend's contractor  didn't follow the engineering drawing and, in my 
opinion, has hung your  friend out to dry.

73,
Dave   AB7E



Dick  Flanagan wrote:
> A friend of mine is installing his first tower.   It is a US Tower 
> HDX454.  (I thinks that's the right  number.  I have an HDX572 and his 
> is the next one shorter than  mine.)
>
> He had the tower specs checked by a local PE for the  requisite wet 
> stamp needed for his building permit.  The PE  calculated and 
> specified a tower footing of 5'x5'x7.5' in undisturbed  soil.
>
> His contractor dug him a 10'x10'x8' hole and is going to  put a 
> 5'x5'x8' plywood frame in the hole enclosing the rebar  cage.  He is 
> then going to fill the frame with concrete and when  it cures is going 
> to remove the frame and back-fill the hole with  compacted soil.
>
> My friend is being told that properly  compacted back-fill is the 
> equivalent of undisturbed soil.  Is  that true??
>
> Dick
> --
> Dick Flanagan K7VC
>  dick@k7vc.com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing  list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>  http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>    


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 27  Apr 2009 15:46:22 -0500
From: "Bill Aycock"  <billaycock@centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Compacted vs.  Undisturbed Soil
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>, "Dick Flanagan"  <dick@k7vc.com>
Message-ID:  <E4BEBE4592D747488D03375E5621FB9C@BillsNo2>
Content-Type: text/plain;  format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

It does not matter what opinion the very BEST on TT  has, the one that 
counts 
is that of the Permitting authority. Ask them.  What they say is the 
Gospel. 
And- check the Bond carried by your  Contractor. He IS bonded, isn't he?
Bill-W4BSG

----- Original  Message ----- 
From: "Dick Flanagan" <dick@k7vc.com>
To:  <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 1:53  PM
Subject: [TowerTalk] Compacted vs. Undisturbed Soil


>A  friend of mine is installing his first tower.  It is a US Tower
>  HDX454.  (I thinks that's the right number.  I have an HDX572 and  his
> is the next one shorter than mine.)
>
> He had the  tower specs checked by a local PE for the requisite wet
> stamp needed  for his building permit.  The PE calculated and
> specified a tower  footing of 5'x5'x7.5' in undisturbed soil.
>
> His contractor dug  him a 10'x10'x8' hole and is going to put a
> 5'x5'x8' plywood frame in  the hole enclosing the rebar cage.  He is
> then going to fill the  frame with concrete and when it cures is going
> to remove the frame and  back-fill the hole with compacted soil.
>
> My friend is being  told that properly compacted back-fill is the
> equivalent of  undisturbed soil.  Is that true??
>
> Dick
> --
>  Dick Flanagan K7VC
> dick@k7vc.com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing  list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>  http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>  




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date:  Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:56:46 -0400
From: Scott McClements  <kc2pih@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Compacted vs. Undisturbed  Soil
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID:
<dc722d260904271356w41335659v152e0958842649f6@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I just installed a HDX572 myself.  Back-fill can be the equivalent of
undistributed soil if its done properly  and then tested.  The
contractor who gave me a 25,000$ quote to build  a form, back fill and
then test the soil for undistributed conditions said  that it was
better this way because the exact condition of the supporting  soil
would then be known.

Ah, yeah, I just dug the hole to the  correct size. It was 1/8 the
cost. Doing the hand shovel work down in a 8  foot hole is what makes
it dangerous and the reason most people want to  build forms.

-Scott, WU2X


On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 2:53 PM,  Dick Flanagan <dick@k7vc.com> wrote:

> My friend is being told  that properly compacted back-fill is the
> equivalent of undisturbed  soil. ?Is that  true??


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date:  Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:20:11 -0700
From: "Mike"  <noddy1211@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Compacted vs.  Undisturbed Soil
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <007201c9c77d$f4cc29f0$de647dd0$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Me to, I would be worried that that with the  weight of the tower and
concrete, the fill below the concrete pour would  compact over time and
become unlevel at the least and at the  worst...........?

Mike, K6BR

-----Original Message-----
From:  towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com]  On Behalf Of Tim N9PUZ


Dick Flanagan wrote:

> My friend  is being told that properly compacted back-fill is the 
> equivalent of  undisturbed soil.  Is that true??

That sounds like something I'd  want the PE who put his name on plan to 
answer.

Tim,  N9PUZ

_______________________________________________



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------------------------------

Message:  8
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:58:26 -0400
From:  <john@kk9a.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Morse Code on Google
To:  <TOWERTALK@contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <AA5BAE08D43A440E9781D21D5E152049@Office>
Content-Type:  text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"

I hope that all of the  towertalk hams can decipher it.



To:  <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Morse Code on  Google
From: scott w3tx
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:07:17  -0400


Google has a morse code message on their site  today!



73, Scott  W3TX


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon,  27 Apr 2009 18:03:15 -0400
From: Mike <nf4l@nf4l.com>
Subject: Re:  [TowerTalk] 6M Beam being weird
To: "larryjspammenot@teleport.com"  <larryj@teleport.com>
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID:  <49F62BA3.2020101@nf4l.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

There was a problem. I don't know by  what serial number it was fixed. My 
2nd PROII never had the problem, and  neither did the rerplacement for 
the bad one. A query on the ICOM  reflector would probably get you some 
more info.

Take a look  here:
http://www.ham.dmz.ro/icom/ic-756proii-oscillation-problem.php

73,  Mike NF4L

larryjspammenot@teleport.com wrote:
> I just picked up  an ICOM IC-756PRO II at a local estate sale. Is there 
some potential 6-Meter  problem I should be aware of?
>
> LJ
>
> -----Original  Message-----
>   
>> From: Mike  <nf4l@nf4l.com>
>> Sent: Apr 27, 2009 5:36 AM
>> To:  Scott MacKenzie <kb0fhp@comcast.net>
>> Cc:  towertalk@contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 6M Beam being  weird
>>
>> Scott MacKenzie wrote:
>>   
>>> All:
>>>  
>>> I  have a 6M beam that is showing high SWR (10:1).  I checked each  
connector
>>> to the antenna by disconnecting and placing a dummy  load.  Finally up 
at the
>>> antenna, I disconnected the  antenna, and placed the dummy load as the
>>> antenna.   Readings were 1:1 SWR.  I then clean up the connector at  the
>>> antenna, and retest.  SWR is still  high.
>>>  
>>> I then pull down the antenna  (K1FO or similar - not M2) and check it 
out.  
>>>   
>>> With the coax disconnected, I check the connector - good  continuity 
from the
>>> center pin to the otherside of the  connector (where the gamma match is
>>> attached.   
>>>  
>>> I check from center pin to ground on  the conductor to see if shorted -
>>> Circuit is  open.
>>>  
>>> I check to make sure I have  continuity between outside of gamma and 
rest of
>>> antenna.  Circuit is fine - and shows continuity.  
>>>   
>>> The only thing I can think of left is to replace the coax  less shield 
inside
>>> the gamma.
>>>   
>>> What else can it be?
>>>  
>>> I  was hoping to get this up higher in the air for the summer Es  
season.
>>>  
>>> Thanks
>>>   
>>> Scott
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>     
>> The rig isn't an ICOM ProII is it? I had a brand new  one that had the 
6M 
>> problem(un-beknownst to me), and I was  assembling a new antenna, It 
>> exhibited a very high  SWR.
>> 73, Mike NF4L
>>      



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date:  Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:13:10 -0700
From: Dennis Vernacchia  <n6ki73@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [RFI] where to buy  FairRite?
To: Kostas SV1DPI <sv1dpi@otenet.gr>
Cc: towertalk  <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID:
<265781b30904271513p637dda3fr14fee40a4356b3b@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

*Kostas,

You can try going to  Mouser Electronics for the clamp on type by going  to
www.mouser.com   and entering manufacturer's number in search  window as I
know they carry several 31 mix
( and other Mixes ) clamp on  type ( see info below )

Otherwise here is more info I hope will help  you

73, Dennis N6KI*


*see below info and maybe pass on to  others
( Info is couple years old so prices have surely increased since  then )



I was in the process of making a group buy for  our local radio club
of some -31 Mix Ferrite clamp on beads
that will  fit tightly on RG-213 size coax and also be good for smaller
cables that I  could
thread thru several times for efficacy. ( Hole is approx 0.400"  )

I discovered that Mouser Electronics now sells at least  this one
particular -31 Mix Ferrite
bead that works well for RFI  problems per Jim Brown's recommendations in 
the
past
on this reflector.  ( These do well in place of 43 or 77 mix and I now use
this
mix from 160  thru 6 mtr band to resolve RFI probs with good results )

They are $2.70 in small quantity but drop to $1.70 for 100 pieces, so
get  together with
a few buddies or your local contest or DX club and snap up  the discount !

You can get to Mouser's order page by  typing

0431167281

in Google search and it will be the first hit  you get

or go to www.mouser.com and enter part number   623-0431167281


*  * * *Mouser
Part #* *Mfr.'s
Part #*  *Manufacturer
Description
Your Part#* *Order
Qty.* *Availability**  *Price* *Ext.*  *   * *623-0431167281*  *0431167281
Fair-Rite* *FERRITE SNAP CASE - RoHS: COMPLIANT*   *
NOTE: Important !
I found one anomaly with these and that is that if  you do use them to snap
directly onto
RG-213 type coax ( approx 0.400"  Diameter) or coax with the same diameter,
the plastic shell that  comes
with the bead has a slightly smaller diameter than the hole in the  ferrite
bead itself and will not allow
you to clamp the bead onto the  coax until you take a pair of diagonal
cutters and trim the
plastic  making the hole bigger. Just a nuisance for now as I have  alerted
Mouser  and Fair-rite
and hopefully they will use the  correct plastic shell in the  future.
*
------------------------------
*
2.4 inch  Donuts

If you would like to buy 2.4" Round ( Donut )  type, ( Fair-Rite
P/N 2631803802
)
and these are really great for  really tough RFI problems, you can order 
them
from Dexter Magnetic  Technologies
I am not sure what their minimum order is  but when I do my group buys
of 100 pieces
I have gotten a piece cost  down near $3, though I hear the price will be
rising sharply soon
due to  the price of one of the materials use in making the -31 MIX - ( like
going  to $4.28 ea in 100 Qty ! )

DEXTER MAGNETIC TECHNOLOGIES  <http://www.dextermag.com/>
800/775-3829

or go to  www.fair-rite.com

click on PRODUCTS ( First Pull Down Tab)
then  click on DISTRIBUTER STOCK LOOKUP
Then enter the part number 2631803802 (  2.4 inch Donut -31 Mix )

and something like this info below will come  up shopping who has stock.


*  * 2631803802 * *160*  *11/26/2006* * Amidon Inductive  Components
<http://www.amidoncorp.com/>* * 800/898-1883
* *  714/850-1163
* *  
Email<http://www.mectronic.com/scripts/mfgsendmail.asp?val=yes&NAD__ID=11752&mfgID=4605&companyemail=sales%40amidoncorp%2Ecom&companyname=Amidon+In
ductive+Components&PartNo=2631803802>
*  *  
RFQ<http://www.mectronic.com/scripts/mfgrfq.asp?val=yes&NAD__ID=11752&mfgID=4605&companyemail=sales%40amidoncorp%2Ecom&companyname=Amidon+Inductiv
e+Components&PartNo=2631803802&txtUserID=&mfgname=Fair%2DRite+Products+Corp%
2E>
*  *  
PO<https://www.mectronic.com/scripts/mfgpoform.asp?val=yes&NAD__ID=11752&mfgID=4605&companyemail=sales%40amidoncorp%2Ecom&companyname=Amidon+Induc
tive+Components&PartNo=2631803802&txtUserID=&mfgname=Fair%2DRite+Products+Co
rp%2E>
*   *2631803802 * *305* *11/24/2006* * Kreger Components,  Inc
<http://www.kregercomponents.com/>* * 800/609-8186
* *  540/776-7890
* *  
Email<http://www.mectronic.com/scripts/mfgsendmail.asp?val=yes&NAD__ID=14120&mfgID=4605&companyemail=ferrites%40kregercomponents%2Ecom&companyname=
Kreger+Components%2C+Inc&PartNo=2631803802>
*  *  
RFQ<http://www.mectronic.com/scripts/mfgrfq.asp?val=yes&NAD__ID=14120&mfgID=4605&companyemail=ferrites%40kregercomponents%2Ecom&companyname=Kreger
+Components%2C+Inc&PartNo=2631803802&txtUserID=&mfgname=FAIR%2DRITE+PRODUCTS
>
*  *  
PO<https://www.mectronic.com/scripts/mfgpoform.asp?val=yes&NAD__ID=14120&mfgID=4605&companyemail=ferrites%40kregercomponents%2Ecom&companyname=Kre
ger+Components%2C+Inc&PartNo=2631803802&txtUserID=&mfgname=FAIR%2DRITE+PRODU
CTS>
*   *2631803802 * *211* *11/20/2006* * DEXTER MAGNETIC  TECHNOLOGIES
<http://www.dextermag.com/>* * 800/775-3829*  *-  Show quoted text -*
*


**On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Kostas  SV1DPI <sv1dpi@otenet.gr> wrote:
*
>
> *I want to buy a  rather large quantity of ferrites
> I need clampon No 2631164181 abt 100  pieces
> i need also 2631102002 abt 30 pieces
> and also  5943003801 or 2631803802 (abt 30 pieces)
> By the way is 2631803802  suitable to make baluns? If not what ferrites 
and
> how many of them  must i use to make a 1:1 balun capable for 2-3kwatts?
> I sent an email  to lodestone but i had no reply.
> Do you know where to buy them for a  cheaper price or is there anyone to
> help
> to buy them and send  to me in Greece?
> Tnx in advance
> Kostas  sv1dpi
>
>
> ______________________________*  *_________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI@contesting.com
>  http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi*
>


------------------------------

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